Wonderful read. As a small-town west-coaster my whole life, Cooperstown is a looong journey. I finally made it last year, took my dad on the pilgrimage we’ve both dreamed of our whole lives for his 75th birthday. I was a little nervous that we had built it up so much it couldn’t possibly live up to our expectations. It exceeded them and more. What an amazing place.
Joe…What a wonderful post. I will be 80 in two weeks and I’ve been to the HOF twice. I live in L.A. and I will go this year for my third visit. I also will go when Clayton is inducted.
"That’s some list. We can go over it on another day."
Can another day be today? Cy had mostly greats, 4 or more mediocre picks and then Bill Dineen, who must have pissed someone in Cooperstown off bigtime because he just can't get in, even when players like Harold Baines goes in.
I can understand the pro and con arguments for the PED guys. I don’t for Rose. Gambling was an issue in the early days but for decades it was a known no-no. Probably the biggest one. And the fact that Pete turned out to be a not so great guy I just don’t see any reason to give him a plaque. He’s in the museum in plenty of places, as he should be. BTW, I really liked Pete when he was playing.
Totally agree. It's one sacred rule of baseball. Plus the only one who benefits from the gambling is Rose, at least one can make the argument that the PED guys were becoming better at baseball.
My half price forever subscription rate didn’t seem to make it back to Substack. Since auto renewal is on, this needs to be dealt with for me (and others, I presume).
Someone who's been around a long time, from the free days through many different platform/publisher changes.
Joe had left the Star by the time I started following him so I'm not the OGist of the OG, but I do remember the WordPress days and reading most of the Greatest Hits when first published. And I have the iPad review.
Guess I’m one too though I pay full price. I became a fan from his SI articles. and have followed through every iteration since then. Think I’ve heard every Poscast since 1947 even though I was born in ‘51. Sorry I didn’t notice your reply until tonight. Thanks!
When my Joe Blogs renewed a couple of months ago I also noticed the full $60 charge. I emailed support and Kathleen wrote back saying she’s not sure why it happened and she gave me a $30 credit. Happened in Beehiiv days, so seems not to be tied to the platform. And seems to happen somewhat rarely. Email them and they should fix it.
The writers are quick to invoke the "character clause" whenever it suits their arguments but then someone who has the stats to be in the HOF AND is one of the best people in the world, like Dale Murphy, they turn their heads and look away.
In "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" Bill James summed up a long chapter (Chapter 23) and concluded that the Hall of Fame is "a museum run by an accountant." (p. 307)
I agree with this. Omar's 11 Gold Gloves and 2877 hits were his only HOF arguments. He was not a good hitter (82 OPS+), not the best base runner (404 SB for 72nd all-time, but with 167 caught stealing for 19th all-time), and only 2.5 WAR per 162 games. Only three AS games and only received MVP votes once (16th place in 1999). His WAR of 45.6 is 32nd amongst SS, but it took him a lot of games to compile his numbers.
Despite all that, he received over 50% of the vote in 2020 and was almost assuredly on his way to being elected until the terrible things he did came to light.
Some great defensive players make hard plays look routine and thus are underrated. I have a feeling that Omar made a lot of routine plays look hard and is overrated due to all his flashy highlights.
I think Wins Above Average is a much more useful stat for the Hall of Fame than Wins Above Replacement.
I'm pretty sure that, for any one year, the list will be the same (top to bottom), which is why it doesn't matter if you're picking an MVP. But a player who was below average (and above replacement) for a long time will vanish from the discussion pretty quickly.
But it's a question of whether you'd rather induct Omar Vizquel or Dale Murphy (both or neither), two guys who compiled almost identical WARs but did so differently.
Cooperstown is charming. I had no idea when I and two of my kids took the “schlep” in 2001, just after HOF weekend and before 9/11 hit. We ended up spending the night so we could do two days in the HOF and see more of the town. The variety of baseball merch was outlandish, and delightful, both in the HOF and in the town.
"An America that never existed except as an idea."
I'm ever so glad you included that thought.
Because - as Mr. Posnanski will be acutely aware - 1950s America was the America of Jim Crow, HUAC, and the Termination Policy. The 'simpler, sweeter' America reified by some depended very much on who you were.
And I know, he's writing about baseball here. But in these times when hateful ideas are not just being spoken by politicians but are being put into bloody practice on American streets, in many ways in the name of that America that never existed, it's important to keep in mind the story of the past that we choose to tell. To not accept the curated, whitewashed lies.
Anyway, Mr. Posnanski's thoughts about baseball are as incisive and fascinating as always. He thinks a lot about dreams, and so do I. I'm very glad to have baseball (among other things) as a pleasant thing to think about when the clamour becomes too much.
I just also think - and again, appreciate very much that this was signposted here - that especially when we talk about the past, in these fractious times, we must be sure to do so with honesty.
Wonderful read. As a small-town west-coaster my whole life, Cooperstown is a looong journey. I finally made it last year, took my dad on the pilgrimage we’ve both dreamed of our whole lives for his 75th birthday. I was a little nervous that we had built it up so much it couldn’t possibly live up to our expectations. It exceeded them and more. What an amazing place.
Remember, it's not the Hall that keeps them out (or lets cheaters in.) It's the voters.
What a beautiful piece!
Joe…What a wonderful post. I will be 80 in two weeks and I’ve been to the HOF twice. I live in L.A. and I will go this year for my third visit. I also will go when Clayton is inducted.
"That’s some list. We can go over it on another day."
Can another day be today? Cy had mostly greats, 4 or more mediocre picks and then Bill Dineen, who must have pissed someone in Cooperstown off bigtime because he just can't get in, even when players like Harold Baines goes in.
On the Warren Harding - Babe Ruth, that’s the point I like to make about art v politics
Nobody can tell you the name of the Dutch prime minister in the 1880s but everyone knows the name a penniless artist missing an ear
Prefer SubStack, thx for making the switch
great piece. Although I am of the belief that Rose is not deserving, I loved Montville's paragraph.
I can understand the pro and con arguments for the PED guys. I don’t for Rose. Gambling was an issue in the early days but for decades it was a known no-no. Probably the biggest one. And the fact that Pete turned out to be a not so great guy I just don’t see any reason to give him a plaque. He’s in the museum in plenty of places, as he should be. BTW, I really liked Pete when he was playing.
Totally agree. It's one sacred rule of baseball. Plus the only one who benefits from the gambling is Rose, at least one can make the argument that the PED guys were becoming better at baseball.
So the results of the voting will be released Tuesday. That means that Trump will announce the invasion of central New York on Wednesday.
My half price forever subscription rate didn’t seem to make it back to Substack. Since auto renewal is on, this needs to be dealt with for me (and others, I presume).
Hi Ray. Your subscription (and the subscription price for all OG JoeBlogs readers) remains at 50% off ... I checked it in multiple places to be sure.
The discount shows up when I log in in my browser, but not in the iPhone app. <shrug>
What’s an OG Joeblogs reader?
Someone who's been around a long time, from the free days through many different platform/publisher changes.
Joe had left the Star by the time I started following him so I'm not the OGist of the OG, but I do remember the WordPress days and reading most of the Greatest Hits when first published. And I have the iPad review.
Guess I’m one too though I pay full price. I became a fan from his SI articles. and have followed through every iteration since then. Think I’ve heard every Poscast since 1947 even though I was born in ‘51. Sorry I didn’t notice your reply until tonight. Thanks!
When I check my JoeBlogs account in the Substack app, it shows the full rate ($60/year). Should I be looking elsewhere?
When my Joe Blogs renewed a couple of months ago I also noticed the full $60 charge. I emailed support and Kathleen wrote back saying she’s not sure why it happened and she gave me a $30 credit. Happened in Beehiiv days, so seems not to be tied to the platform. And seems to happen somewhat rarely. Email them and they should fix it.
The writers are quick to invoke the "character clause" whenever it suits their arguments but then someone who has the stats to be in the HOF AND is one of the best people in the world, like Dale Murphy, they turn their heads and look away.
I like the Bill James description the most, and it's why I think the standards for the Hall of Fame must be rigorously guarded
In "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" Bill James summed up a long chapter (Chapter 23) and concluded that the Hall of Fame is "a museum run by an accountant." (p. 307)
I need to re-read that book
Me too!
I know it’s a throwaway line but Omar Vizquel did not play mind blowing defense… which is why his HOF candidacy was always silly.
He was a good defensive shortstop but I’m not sure he was ever even the best in the league for a single season.
Omar would be as bad a selection as Tom Yawkey.
I agree with this. Omar's 11 Gold Gloves and 2877 hits were his only HOF arguments. He was not a good hitter (82 OPS+), not the best base runner (404 SB for 72nd all-time, but with 167 caught stealing for 19th all-time), and only 2.5 WAR per 162 games. Only three AS games and only received MVP votes once (16th place in 1999). His WAR of 45.6 is 32nd amongst SS, but it took him a lot of games to compile his numbers.
Despite all that, he received over 50% of the vote in 2020 and was almost assuredly on his way to being elected until the terrible things he did came to light.
Some great defensive players make hard plays look routine and thus are underrated. I have a feeling that Omar made a lot of routine plays look hard and is overrated due to all his flashy highlights.
I think Wins Above Average is a much more useful stat for the Hall of Fame than Wins Above Replacement.
I'm pretty sure that, for any one year, the list will be the same (top to bottom), which is why it doesn't matter if you're picking an MVP. But a player who was below average (and above replacement) for a long time will vanish from the discussion pretty quickly.
But it's a question of whether you'd rather induct Omar Vizquel or Dale Murphy (both or neither), two guys who compiled almost identical WARs but did so differently.
https://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=1009355,411
He would need to be close to Ozzie Smith level to get in to the HOF on that basis and he wasn’t even remotely near that defensively.
The Hockey Hall of Fame is in a bank. It's the museum part that's in a mall.
But we get your point.
Cooperstown is charming. I had no idea when I and two of my kids took the “schlep” in 2001, just after HOF weekend and before 9/11 hit. We ended up spending the night so we could do two days in the HOF and see more of the town. The variety of baseball merch was outlandish, and delightful, both in the HOF and in the town.
"An America that never existed except as an idea."
I'm ever so glad you included that thought.
Because - as Mr. Posnanski will be acutely aware - 1950s America was the America of Jim Crow, HUAC, and the Termination Policy. The 'simpler, sweeter' America reified by some depended very much on who you were.
And I know, he's writing about baseball here. But in these times when hateful ideas are not just being spoken by politicians but are being put into bloody practice on American streets, in many ways in the name of that America that never existed, it's important to keep in mind the story of the past that we choose to tell. To not accept the curated, whitewashed lies.
Anyway, Mr. Posnanski's thoughts about baseball are as incisive and fascinating as always. He thinks a lot about dreams, and so do I. I'm very glad to have baseball (among other things) as a pleasant thing to think about when the clamour becomes too much.
I just also think - and again, appreciate very much that this was signposted here - that especially when we talk about the past, in these fractious times, we must be sure to do so with honesty.