Maybe true if the season didn't have an abbreviated spring training & this happened in June. But there are literally no pitchers, certainly Kershaw isn't, stretched out to throw 9 innings right now. And teams don't even plan for starters to go that long. If you plan for a pitcher to throw a perfect game, then they have to be able to throw enough pitches to do so. And starters are always injured, so risking a pitcher is literally insane right now.
Candidly. Joe picking Santana as a comp is statistical cherry picking. How many pitchers have been left in, lose it, and yet keep pitching and had fine careers? That number would be revealing.
I wondered if Terry Leach was going to be mentioned. Not only did he throw a 1-hitter, it was a 10-inning game. John Denny was just as good for the Phillies that day...
I loved the last line. They are both valid choices. Santana wanted the no hitter more than anything. Kershaw didn't think he had enough pitches to finish it out, and if he didn't, why even come out for the 8th? Once you do, you are kind of making a commitment to throw 100+ of you keep getting guys out.
Also, I think it is funny that all the guys pissed about seem to take it as a fait accompli that he would have finished it. Even if his arm wasn't tired, that chance would be at best 10%. Add in the fact that his arm was tired, and that percentage is a lot lower.
I've always thought that the idea that this game is what did him in was silly. After the next two mediocre starts, he had three starts that were pretty damn good, including 8 innings of 3-hit ball against the Dodgers. He then turned his ankle, and wasn't the same. When he went on the then-DL, he even said that the ankle injury affected his shoulder. Yet 10 years later, we have this narrative about 134 pitches and Terry Collins, and it's not true.
But Joe, what you failed to mention is that several starts after the no-no (I don't remember which one it was), Johan turned his ankle covering 1B on a play. We all know what happens to pitcher's mechanics when they start trying to compensate for something not being right. It's very easy to draw a direct line from the no-no to the end of Johan's career, but that ankle injury could've played a role.
Personal side note: I came home from work that day, it was a Friday night, and asked my family, "You guys feel like going to the Mets game tonight?" Unfortunately my boys don't share my love of the Mets. They are Mets fans, but they don't bleed orange and blue the way I do. At the time, they were 6 and 10. They said, "No, not really." I've never let them forget that because of that, I missed the Mets 1st and only no hitter (and it's why now I go to about 10-15 games a year by myself). Thankfully, the now 20 year old has gotten more into baseball and the Mets since he went away to college 😊
In addition to Johan, Mets left fielder Mike Baxter crushed his shoulder making a miraculous catch to save the no-hitter. I’m not sure he ever played another game. Was it worth it for him? I hope so.
He actually came back later that year and played three more seasons. No idea If that injury derailed his career but his name in safe in Mets lore which is pretty cool I’d imagine, especially since he was from Queens
Great article--brings back memories--one of the last years I played Fantasy Baseball--and I had always wanted Santana, going back to his glory days with the Twins--in 2012, I picked him up as a free agent (right after our draft--I was very surprised he was available, as I was not playing with rubes). Our League was a point-system one and our Commissioner liked to give what we called "Joker Points"--e.g., for a batter/position player, 10 extra points for a Grand Slam, 20 extra points points for the cycle, 2 extra points for a stolen base--for the Pitcher, 10 extra points for a Win, a complete game, or a shutout; 40 extra points for a no-hitter, and 50 extra for a perfect game.
In addition to the normal added/subtracted points (e.g., for a pitcher, one point per 1/3 IP; one point for a K; minus one point for a BB; minus one point/hit; minus one point for an earned run)--I racked up 90 fantasy points--that and $1.84 can get me a big gulp at the 7/11!
As Mr. Potter would say, "Sentimental hogwash." You don't sacrifice the career of any player for one game, especially not a potential Hall of Famer who could win games for you for another three or four seasons or who knows how long if you don't ruin his arm in an 8-0 game in May. (Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzraYNG8ZH4&list=TLPQMTQwNDIwMjLQGB_TIxgCvQ&index=1)
I remember that no-hitter well, and it often comes to mind when a I see a pitcher asked to give a little bit more to complete a no-hitter. Thing is, it's not just no-hitters. We see pitchers regularly asked to give a few extra pitches, another inning, etc., for regular games, with generally there not being any long-lasting issues. I'm not sure to this day if Santana's no-hitter had anything to do with his subsequent shoulder problems. As Joe noted, he had an immediate dud after his no-hitter, but then he pitched three consecutive good games. The no-hitter likely didn't do him in. What most likely did Santana's shoulder in was Santana's shoulder. It was going to give out, so good for him that he was able to get that no-hitter since his arm only had so many more bullets left in it.
BTW, Often not mentioned, but David Cone was never quite the same after his perfect game. I attended that game, feeling it was almost the baseball gods rewarding me as I was supposed to be at Dave Righetti's July 4th, 1983 no-hitter the prior decade. I was a young reporter myself, barely into his first job out of school, and as the new guy, I was assigned to work the holidays. I was slightly annoyed when I heard the AP teletype machine dinging, a sign that something was happening. The machine spit out the copy that Righetti had pitched a no-hitter. In some strange way, it was confirmation that I was now an adult, and I couldn't just take off to go watch a game. I figured that was my one chance to see a no-hitter, so that's why I was quite happy 16 years on to attend a perfect game, a much rarer event.
Cone himself was never quite the same after that game. Was it the extra stress? Likely not. He began slipping around mid-May, with the no-hitter being one of his few bright spots the rest of the regular seasons. Even the game directly prior, he gave up I think six or seven runs. The following season he was even worse. It wasn't the perfect game, it likely was just a lifetime of pitching. I jokingly said the baseball gods were rewarding me because I had missed Righetti's no-hitter. They weren't rewarding me, they were rewarding Cone, on a day that Yogi Berra and Don Larsen were in attendance celebrating Larsen's perfect game in the World Series. It was Cone's brightest regular-season moment coming as he began trending down at the end of being a top pitcher. Same with Santana.
I do not understand how Santana did not get more HOF consideration. His peak was so good, it deserved more than a one-year stint on the ballot. His Baseball Reference page is pretty incredible.
My Dad was a Mets fan from when they started in '62, and passed that on to me. I remember distinctly watching that game, and calling him up in the seventh to turn on the game, and make sure we were both watching, which is something I've not done for any game, before or since.
It was something special, at least to me. As such, Santana is the only athlete, or any other celebrity, I've ever approached in public, just to thank him for all he did for Mets fans.
It's a memory I'll cherish forever, watching the last few innings of that game with my dad.
I was reminded of Corey Kluber’s 18-K, 8-inning effort several years ago. The difference is that Kluber was well over 100 pitches when he left the game, so even tying the record would have put him at 120 (or more). I recall there were some complaints then as well, although the spotlight wasn’t nearly as bright for Kluber and Cleveland. I would imagine Kluber didn’t show much emotion about the situation.
Just last year, Kluber pitched a no-hitter. I was going to add that to my already long story below about Cone and his perfect game. Kluber went on the IL I believe the next start. There's no way of knowing, however, if those extra pitches pushed Kluber over the line, or he simply was still building back from missing so much time. I'm sure Kluber wouldn't trade that moment, especially since he's still pitching. We know Santana wouldn't, and I'm sure Cone would say the same.
As Dr. Tyrell says to Roy Batty in Bladerunner, "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly."
I was shocked to find that Johan Santana only got 2.4% in his only year on the Hall of Fame ballot. As Pedro's decline phase kicked in, he was the best, most fun pitcher to watch for a few years.
Fun fact: He got the same number of votes as Jamie Moyer. Both are essentially 50 WAR players despite Moyer pitching twice as long. Talk about peak vs. longevity!
What a beautiful article and perspective. Thanks for sharing it Joe!
It was BS to take Kershaw out of what might have been his only opportunity for a Perfecto. Makes about as much sense as the Bumgarner perfecto.
Maybe true if the season didn't have an abbreviated spring training & this happened in June. But there are literally no pitchers, certainly Kershaw isn't, stretched out to throw 9 innings right now. And teams don't even plan for starters to go that long. If you plan for a pitcher to throw a perfect game, then they have to be able to throw enough pitches to do so. And starters are always injured, so risking a pitcher is literally insane right now.
Candidly. Joe picking Santana as a comp is statistical cherry picking. How many pitchers have been left in, lose it, and yet keep pitching and had fine careers? That number would be revealing.
I wondered if Terry Leach was going to be mentioned. Not only did he throw a 1-hitter, it was a 10-inning game. John Denny was just as good for the Phillies that day...
I loved the last line. They are both valid choices. Santana wanted the no hitter more than anything. Kershaw didn't think he had enough pitches to finish it out, and if he didn't, why even come out for the 8th? Once you do, you are kind of making a commitment to throw 100+ of you keep getting guys out.
Also, I think it is funny that all the guys pissed about seem to take it as a fait accompli that he would have finished it. Even if his arm wasn't tired, that chance would be at best 10%. Add in the fact that his arm was tired, and that percentage is a lot lower.
How many times did Santana and Kershaw each go through the lineup?😉
I've always thought that the idea that this game is what did him in was silly. After the next two mediocre starts, he had three starts that were pretty damn good, including 8 innings of 3-hit ball against the Dodgers. He then turned his ankle, and wasn't the same. When he went on the then-DL, he even said that the ankle injury affected his shoulder. Yet 10 years later, we have this narrative about 134 pitches and Terry Collins, and it's not true.
It is the "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy.
But Joe, what you failed to mention is that several starts after the no-no (I don't remember which one it was), Johan turned his ankle covering 1B on a play. We all know what happens to pitcher's mechanics when they start trying to compensate for something not being right. It's very easy to draw a direct line from the no-no to the end of Johan's career, but that ankle injury could've played a role.
Personal side note: I came home from work that day, it was a Friday night, and asked my family, "You guys feel like going to the Mets game tonight?" Unfortunately my boys don't share my love of the Mets. They are Mets fans, but they don't bleed orange and blue the way I do. At the time, they were 6 and 10. They said, "No, not really." I've never let them forget that because of that, I missed the Mets 1st and only no hitter (and it's why now I go to about 10-15 games a year by myself). Thankfully, the now 20 year old has gotten more into baseball and the Mets since he went away to college 😊
In addition to Johan, Mets left fielder Mike Baxter crushed his shoulder making a miraculous catch to save the no-hitter. I’m not sure he ever played another game. Was it worth it for him? I hope so.
I was going to mention the tremendous play by Mike Baxter that
saved the no-hitter on a ball hit by notorious Mets' killer Yadier Molina in the 7th inning...
but you beat me to it. As Baxter was only 27 at the time, then was out injured for
two months and played only sporadically for three more seasons, obviously his career
was impacted significantly by the injury. He's been a hitting coach at Vanderbilt for several
seasons and his is a name no Mets fan will ever forget.
He actually came back later that year and played three more seasons. No idea If that injury derailed his career but his name in safe in Mets lore which is pretty cool I’d imagine, especially since he was from Queens
Great article--brings back memories--one of the last years I played Fantasy Baseball--and I had always wanted Santana, going back to his glory days with the Twins--in 2012, I picked him up as a free agent (right after our draft--I was very surprised he was available, as I was not playing with rubes). Our League was a point-system one and our Commissioner liked to give what we called "Joker Points"--e.g., for a batter/position player, 10 extra points for a Grand Slam, 20 extra points points for the cycle, 2 extra points for a stolen base--for the Pitcher, 10 extra points for a Win, a complete game, or a shutout; 40 extra points for a no-hitter, and 50 extra for a perfect game.
In addition to the normal added/subtracted points (e.g., for a pitcher, one point per 1/3 IP; one point for a K; minus one point for a BB; minus one point/hit; minus one point for an earned run)--I racked up 90 fantasy points--that and $1.84 can get me a big gulp at the 7/11!
As Mr. Potter would say, "Sentimental hogwash." You don't sacrifice the career of any player for one game, especially not a potential Hall of Famer who could win games for you for another three or four seasons or who knows how long if you don't ruin his arm in an 8-0 game in May. (Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzraYNG8ZH4&list=TLPQMTQwNDIwMjLQGB_TIxgCvQ&index=1)
I remember that no-hitter well, and it often comes to mind when a I see a pitcher asked to give a little bit more to complete a no-hitter. Thing is, it's not just no-hitters. We see pitchers regularly asked to give a few extra pitches, another inning, etc., for regular games, with generally there not being any long-lasting issues. I'm not sure to this day if Santana's no-hitter had anything to do with his subsequent shoulder problems. As Joe noted, he had an immediate dud after his no-hitter, but then he pitched three consecutive good games. The no-hitter likely didn't do him in. What most likely did Santana's shoulder in was Santana's shoulder. It was going to give out, so good for him that he was able to get that no-hitter since his arm only had so many more bullets left in it.
BTW, Often not mentioned, but David Cone was never quite the same after his perfect game. I attended that game, feeling it was almost the baseball gods rewarding me as I was supposed to be at Dave Righetti's July 4th, 1983 no-hitter the prior decade. I was a young reporter myself, barely into his first job out of school, and as the new guy, I was assigned to work the holidays. I was slightly annoyed when I heard the AP teletype machine dinging, a sign that something was happening. The machine spit out the copy that Righetti had pitched a no-hitter. In some strange way, it was confirmation that I was now an adult, and I couldn't just take off to go watch a game. I figured that was my one chance to see a no-hitter, so that's why I was quite happy 16 years on to attend a perfect game, a much rarer event.
Cone himself was never quite the same after that game. Was it the extra stress? Likely not. He began slipping around mid-May, with the no-hitter being one of his few bright spots the rest of the regular seasons. Even the game directly prior, he gave up I think six or seven runs. The following season he was even worse. It wasn't the perfect game, it likely was just a lifetime of pitching. I jokingly said the baseball gods were rewarding me because I had missed Righetti's no-hitter. They weren't rewarding me, they were rewarding Cone, on a day that Yogi Berra and Don Larsen were in attendance celebrating Larsen's perfect game in the World Series. It was Cone's brightest regular-season moment coming as he began trending down at the end of being a top pitcher. Same with Santana.
I do not understand how Santana did not get more HOF consideration. His peak was so good, it deserved more than a one-year stint on the ballot. His Baseball Reference page is pretty incredible.
My Dad was a Mets fan from when they started in '62, and passed that on to me. I remember distinctly watching that game, and calling him up in the seventh to turn on the game, and make sure we were both watching, which is something I've not done for any game, before or since.
It was something special, at least to me. As such, Santana is the only athlete, or any other celebrity, I've ever approached in public, just to thank him for all he did for Mets fans.
It's a memory I'll cherish forever, watching the last few innings of that game with my dad.
I was reminded of Corey Kluber’s 18-K, 8-inning effort several years ago. The difference is that Kluber was well over 100 pitches when he left the game, so even tying the record would have put him at 120 (or more). I recall there were some complaints then as well, although the spotlight wasn’t nearly as bright for Kluber and Cleveland. I would imagine Kluber didn’t show much emotion about the situation.
https://www.mlb.com/news/revisiting-corey-kluber-s-18-strikeout-outing-c276610692
Just last year, Kluber pitched a no-hitter. I was going to add that to my already long story below about Cone and his perfect game. Kluber went on the IL I believe the next start. There's no way of knowing, however, if those extra pitches pushed Kluber over the line, or he simply was still building back from missing so much time. I'm sure Kluber wouldn't trade that moment, especially since he's still pitching. We know Santana wouldn't, and I'm sure Cone would say the same.
As Dr. Tyrell says to Roy Batty in Bladerunner, "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly."
I was shocked to find that Johan Santana only got 2.4% in his only year on the Hall of Fame ballot. As Pedro's decline phase kicked in, he was the best, most fun pitcher to watch for a few years.
Fun fact: He got the same number of votes as Jamie Moyer. Both are essentially 50 WAR players despite Moyer pitching twice as long. Talk about peak vs. longevity!