I know the benchmark was PAs, but it’s so telling that this exercise was exclusively hitters and left out pitchers. There are so many hitters playing right now that are on a path for Cooperstown or are promising to be in the conversation, but it feels like there are so few pitchers (Ohtani excluded since he’s his own category). You have the guys at the ends of their career like Kershaw, Scherzer, and Verlander, who should all be in on the first ballot. After that... Cole? Is deGrom going to make it with all the injuries? Sale, Kluber, and Bumgarner all feel like they’re going to come up short. There are so many comets over the years, but few of them are putting that full HOF-level career together. It’s just interesting how we’re in such a golden age of hitters, but the long-term star pitchers just aren’t there.
It seems harder to identify pitchers “mid-stream,” probably because our customary benchmarks have fallen: there are unlikely to be any more 300-game winners, for example. I would add Greinke and Sabathia to your list, though they’re retired or almost so. Maybe Julio Urias? He’s young enough and has some great seasons banked already.
Definitely agree on Greinke and Sabathia, but they both fall into the same category as Keyshawn/Scherzer/Verlander. I have no idea how pitchers are going to be judged going forward, because 300 is going to be so rare. But let’s take the last 10 AL Cy Young winners, for example. You have two for Verlander and one for Scherzer. But between Kluber, Keuchel, Porcello, Snell, Bieber, and Ray, are any of them on a HOF path? Maybe Kluber or Snell, but have they strung enough strong seasons together?
Without looking it up, tell me the formula for first basemen WAR. Both the Fangraphs and Baseball Reference versions. Also, give me the formula for JAWS, without looking it up. Let’s go to the ballpark, watch a ballgame and “measure” these things. It’ll be fun!
Did the Braves choose Olson over Freeman? As I recall, it looked as if Freeman’s reps steered the move to LA, at the Braves expense, and the Braves reacted by moving for Olson. Chipper had a lot to say about it in the aftermath.
Doesn't matter what Altuve does the rest of his career. If cheating is keeping out one of the all time greats like Bonds than Altuve shouldn't have a chance.
By all accounts, Altuve never cheated. He knew the cheating was happening, but didn't say anything.
So, take out every player the played in the steroid era, anyone who played for the 1951 Giants, every player that played for Tony Larrussa's early White Sox teams, (and obviously Tony himself, who pioneered electronic cheating).
Hey, while you are at it, take out the whole amphetamine era as well.
No one needs to hear your self righteous judgement.
So how do you explain his behavior after hitting the ALCS walk off? He was shy? New tattoo?
And do you believe the Astros about who was cheating and when? Or the Nationals players and managers who said lots of guys from other teams warned them before the 2019 series about how the Astros were cheating? Or the baseball writer for the Wall Street Journal who says they cheated from 2016 through 2018?
Not really sure how you can go with the Astros on this one.
Referring to the walk off cements you as a crazy conspiracy theorist. (Or perhaps just a Yankee fan. You know, one of the other teams that electronically cheated in 2017 causing the memo to all the teams in early September - which the trashcan banging trackers show that he Astros stopped the banging around two weeks after the memo)
How do YOU explain the idea, made up out of whole cloth by a fake twitter account, and swallowed by the senseless willing, that he had on a buzzer? In an incident that occurred in the 2019 postseason, at which time the MLB had in place an 8 second delay on dugout monitors? Perhaps whatever spiritual deity you believe in was in on the whole thing? Maybe it was aliens invisibly hovering over the field and sending signals? Maybe we should place a ban on all Gods and Aliens from baseball.
Or perhaps you are gullible enough to somehow still believe anything, however fake and ridiculous, that coincides with your worldview, regardless of logic or reality? Hey, these days, I guess that is just the American way.
You are making assumptions about me which are wildly off base. In my experience, the person who resorts to personal insults during an argument is usually the person who is losing the argument. I will not make assumptions as to why you continue to defend the Astros. That is all I will say about the personal comments.
As to the Astros, Rob Manfred and MLB found that the Astros cheated during all of 2017 and at the beginning of 2018. Jared Diamond, the Wall Street Journal baseball writer, has written that the Astros were cheating on the road. He based this on a letter from Manfred to Jeff Luhnow, the Astros’ GM, and on Astros’ internal emails. He apparently also says the cheating began in 2016 and went into part of 2018.
Altuve’s behavior after his 2019 ALCS walk off is still inexplicable to me. I have been watching baseball for 40+ years and have never seen or heard of anything like his behavior as he approached home plate. And then he goes into the clubhouse to change into the AL Champs shirt rather than change on the field. I cannot think of another explanation for those two things other than he was cheating. And his evolving explanations (he is shy, he was worried about his wife’s reaction if they tore his shirt off, he had a bad or new or unfinished tattoo) don’t make any sense at all. And this would mean he was thinking about these things as he rounded the bases after hitting the biggest home run of his life, putting his team into the World Series.
At the end of the day, I was not there on the field during any of these games and I don’t think any of us on this comment list were either. But there are plenty of eye and ear witnesses. These are the players from other teams who say they heard buzzers, heard whistles, saw flashing lights in the outfield, saw cameras pointed at opposing dugouts etc. Cameras pointed at dugouts obviously make the 8 second delay irrelevant. Lots of this was outside the 2017 window which the Astros claim was the limited time they cheated. Supposedly some teams complained to the league about the Astros cheating before the investigation, but the league did not investigate until after Mike Fiers (former Astros pitcher) went public about the cheating. And the Nationals say they heard the whistling from the Astros dugout during the 2019 World Series, and also that an abnormally high number of players from other teams reached out to them before that series to warn about how the Astros were cheating.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. We can either believe all that other evidence, or we can believe the Astros who say they only cheated in 2017. I know who I believe, and I think the Astros cheated in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. Maybe not all four full seasons, but for at least parts of 4 seasons.
You brought up a crazy conspiracy theory, not me. Calling it that is just factual. None of the things you say are. Not expecting to change your mind or anything. It is obviously closed to anything but a rumor mill that fits your worldview.
There are certainly players that have said every one of those things you mentioned above about the Dodgers for over a a decade as well, by the way.
And yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't give them equal weight or anything. Guys who wear tinfoil hats have opinions. When your opinion is based on fake twitter accounts and mining the internet for every rumor you can find, then it is no more valid than those sources.
As mentioned by others, Mookie Betts is on a HOF trajectory. No idea where his counting numbers will reach but Betts is one of the most complete ball players of the era. I'm hoping he reaches at least 2500 hits and 400 HR. Would be more if he plays till 40. Could be less if injuries crop up.
As for Freddie Freeman he started as a good hitter and then at age 26 he became an exceptional hitter. And then at age 28 he became Superman - playing every game that season and leading the NL in plate appearances in 2021, 2022 and so far in 2023. And of course winning the MVP in the shortened 2020 season - although Betts had the higher WAR. Let Freddie post two more Superman seasons after this one, or accumulate 3 or more very good seasons and he's a very high caliber HOFer.
As Joe M. pointed out Mookie Betts is too seldom included in the probable HOF category. This is his 10th year and he's 30. Career .292 BA. 242 HRs. 6 gold gloves and may not be considered this year because he played EVERYWHERE - and played well. Under-appreciated!
Break up the Royals! They are headed for the top of the putrid AL Central! Of course, I do see them playing at Philadelphia this weekend. I feel that may be more of a challenge than the cratering Mets at home, but still, they are only 21 games out of first, so I'm saying there's a chance.
The Rizzo concussion hits close to home. My son plays HS lacrosse and they do a baseline cognitive test at the beginning of the year. 6th game of season he took a hit and his head bounced off the turf. I knew from the second I saw it, he got a concussion. 2 days later when he felt ok enough to take the cognitive test, his reaction time was 80% slower. I can't even fathom how Rizzo (or anyone) could hit a baseball after suffering a concussion.
My daughter plays HS lacrosse and I just found out she cheated on the baseline. Told me that she intentionally was slower on the baseline so she could pass if worse happened. Then she got a concussion but was able to pass her baseline a few weeks later. AP test time and she needed a high score for the college she wanted and could not study. Lucky she did well. Been playing lacrosse and field hockey (club level as well for years) and gets one in her senior year. Knew it had to be bad when she did not get up (she gets tanked almost every game so not usually a worry). Hope your son is doing well.
My kids school was doing baseline concussion testing and then stopped. My understanding is the baselines were too noisy to be useful in evaluating kids for concussion.
Head injuries are so crazy and the doctors don't all the way understand them yet. I know what you mean by close to home though.
My 15 year old daughter told her soccer coach to take out of a game because she couldn't see the ball anymore. We skipped going to a regular Dr and went straight to a concussion specialist who diagnosed her with a severe concussion. She was out of school for 2 weeks and out of soccer for three months. In that first week afterwards she had two seizures. She did nothing but sleep for two weeks. It was about two months before she acted like her normal self even. Neither of her coaches, her mother, or I saw a play that we thought it might have happened on and she didn't know how it happed either. On video we never saw her head make contact with a player, the ball, the ground, nothing.
After the concussion specialist cleared her, she played soccer for about a month and a half when during a college showcase in Vegas she bounced her head off the ground. The way the back of her head hit the ground, the sound it made, and the way her body rag-dolled afterwards, we all knew immediately it was really bad. (I heard her head hit the ground and I was at least 50 yards away) It was so obvious it was bad that the referee called it halftime immediately. The medic and her coach called me on the field and when I got to her she we still unconscious. They carted her off the field and we took her to the same concussion Dr the next morning. After the first concussion, that nobody even saw happen and caused two seizures, I was sure that this second one, that was so obvious and blatant, was going to be so much much worse. This time she had a headache for two days and had no other ill effects. She was only out of soccer two weeks (two weeks was her return to non contact soccer not all full contact. They don't just send them back to sport it's a gradual return. Physical activity ie running/weights, non contact sport activities, practice with contact, then games) Head injuries make no sense, whatever kind of little hit her head took that first time caused a sever injury and the brutal hit that knocked her unconscious for five minutes hardly did anything at all.
Hope she is doing well now. The school trainers are nice but they cleared my daughter as well right away but did not believe them. Good on you for taking her right away to a good doctor.
Joe: Chevaliers doesn’t have you on their events page. An item for your publicist...but..you should know. B) Rizzo. One wonders if Mr. Manfred has Mr. Goodell’s phone number. The NFL might have something called a “Concussion Protocol”. (Developed over 30+ years too late but at least it exists). Articles that I’ve read seem to indicate that Rizzo sought out a neurologist on his own. That probably took a lot bc he clearly thinks of himself as a gamer. (He is.) It shouldn’t come to something like that. Ever. MLBPA also owns a bunch of shame here too. You already correctly chastised the Yankees. (Who....at least got the Sabathia and German alcoholic rehab issues right. Even if they needed a violent clubhouse explosion from German to point the way.)
I personally would be pretty stunned if Stanton ended up a Hall of Famer. I don't think he's going to get to 500 home runs and even if he does there's almost no way he gets particularly close to the career value thresholds that enough voters look at. Add to that that his most important seasons happened in Miami with relatively little fanfare and that he's basically been a disappointment since coming to New York and I'd honestly think it's more likely he falls off the ballot than that he gets in.
Couldn't agree more! His entire approach to hitting is a home run or nothing; he K's a wagon load of times; he's far from a gifted baserunner; and although he was a decent fielder in his early and mid-20's, his fielding range, on the infrequent day he's asked to don a glove, is Luzinski-like. Basically he hits some homers in one of the majors' most homer-friendly parks. Otherwise, he has too quickly become a below average contributor who has too much trouble staying healthy.
It's so much fun having the "Is this person a Hall of Famer?" discussion - as long as we keep it friendly, and remember two important things:
1. A player has to have been in the major leagues for ten years before they can even appear on the ballot.
2. It's a *consensus* *opinion* that gets a player into the HoF, not some arbitrary collection of statistical criteria. And it's a BIG consensus - something like 300 out of 400 voters need to give the "OK".
Anyway, for an off-season exercise, I might suggest going back over the history of the All Star Game and see how many of the players each year wound up making it into the HoF. Which year had the most HoFers? Do any trends appear - has the number gone up or down with expansion?
Hi Joe! Do you recon it will be enjoyable on the Kindle too?
It's kind of a bummer to ship it Hungary (and then to haul it around in a backpack for reading) :)
I know the benchmark was PAs, but it’s so telling that this exercise was exclusively hitters and left out pitchers. There are so many hitters playing right now that are on a path for Cooperstown or are promising to be in the conversation, but it feels like there are so few pitchers (Ohtani excluded since he’s his own category). You have the guys at the ends of their career like Kershaw, Scherzer, and Verlander, who should all be in on the first ballot. After that... Cole? Is deGrom going to make it with all the injuries? Sale, Kluber, and Bumgarner all feel like they’re going to come up short. There are so many comets over the years, but few of them are putting that full HOF-level career together. It’s just interesting how we’re in such a golden age of hitters, but the long-term star pitchers just aren’t there.
It seems harder to identify pitchers “mid-stream,” probably because our customary benchmarks have fallen: there are unlikely to be any more 300-game winners, for example. I would add Greinke and Sabathia to your list, though they’re retired or almost so. Maybe Julio Urias? He’s young enough and has some great seasons banked already.
Definitely agree on Greinke and Sabathia, but they both fall into the same category as Keyshawn/Scherzer/Verlander. I have no idea how pitchers are going to be judged going forward, because 300 is going to be so rare. But let’s take the last 10 AL Cy Young winners, for example. You have two for Verlander and one for Scherzer. But between Kluber, Keuchel, Porcello, Snell, Bieber, and Ray, are any of them on a HOF path? Maybe Kluber or Snell, but have they strung enough strong seasons together?
Without looking it up, tell me the formula for first basemen WAR. Both the Fangraphs and Baseball Reference versions. Also, give me the formula for JAWS, without looking it up. Let’s go to the ballpark, watch a ballgame and “measure” these things. It’ll be fun!
Did the Braves choose Olson over Freeman? As I recall, it looked as if Freeman’s reps steered the move to LA, at the Braves expense, and the Braves reacted by moving for Olson. Chipper had a lot to say about it in the aftermath.
Reading this post last night helped with my Immaculate Grid this morning (8/5). Thanks Joe!
Not Mookie? Weird.
Doesn't matter what Altuve does the rest of his career. If cheating is keeping out one of the all time greats like Bonds than Altuve shouldn't have a chance.
By all accounts, Altuve never cheated. He knew the cheating was happening, but didn't say anything.
So, take out every player the played in the steroid era, anyone who played for the 1951 Giants, every player that played for Tony Larrussa's early White Sox teams, (and obviously Tony himself, who pioneered electronic cheating).
Hey, while you are at it, take out the whole amphetamine era as well.
No one needs to hear your self righteous judgement.
So how do you explain his behavior after hitting the ALCS walk off? He was shy? New tattoo?
And do you believe the Astros about who was cheating and when? Or the Nationals players and managers who said lots of guys from other teams warned them before the 2019 series about how the Astros were cheating? Or the baseball writer for the Wall Street Journal who says they cheated from 2016 through 2018?
Not really sure how you can go with the Astros on this one.
Referring to the walk off cements you as a crazy conspiracy theorist. (Or perhaps just a Yankee fan. You know, one of the other teams that electronically cheated in 2017 causing the memo to all the teams in early September - which the trashcan banging trackers show that he Astros stopped the banging around two weeks after the memo)
How do YOU explain the idea, made up out of whole cloth by a fake twitter account, and swallowed by the senseless willing, that he had on a buzzer? In an incident that occurred in the 2019 postseason, at which time the MLB had in place an 8 second delay on dugout monitors? Perhaps whatever spiritual deity you believe in was in on the whole thing? Maybe it was aliens invisibly hovering over the field and sending signals? Maybe we should place a ban on all Gods and Aliens from baseball.
Or perhaps you are gullible enough to somehow still believe anything, however fake and ridiculous, that coincides with your worldview, regardless of logic or reality? Hey, these days, I guess that is just the American way.
You are making assumptions about me which are wildly off base. In my experience, the person who resorts to personal insults during an argument is usually the person who is losing the argument. I will not make assumptions as to why you continue to defend the Astros. That is all I will say about the personal comments.
As to the Astros, Rob Manfred and MLB found that the Astros cheated during all of 2017 and at the beginning of 2018. Jared Diamond, the Wall Street Journal baseball writer, has written that the Astros were cheating on the road. He based this on a letter from Manfred to Jeff Luhnow, the Astros’ GM, and on Astros’ internal emails. He apparently also says the cheating began in 2016 and went into part of 2018.
Altuve’s behavior after his 2019 ALCS walk off is still inexplicable to me. I have been watching baseball for 40+ years and have never seen or heard of anything like his behavior as he approached home plate. And then he goes into the clubhouse to change into the AL Champs shirt rather than change on the field. I cannot think of another explanation for those two things other than he was cheating. And his evolving explanations (he is shy, he was worried about his wife’s reaction if they tore his shirt off, he had a bad or new or unfinished tattoo) don’t make any sense at all. And this would mean he was thinking about these things as he rounded the bases after hitting the biggest home run of his life, putting his team into the World Series.
At the end of the day, I was not there on the field during any of these games and I don’t think any of us on this comment list were either. But there are plenty of eye and ear witnesses. These are the players from other teams who say they heard buzzers, heard whistles, saw flashing lights in the outfield, saw cameras pointed at opposing dugouts etc. Cameras pointed at dugouts obviously make the 8 second delay irrelevant. Lots of this was outside the 2017 window which the Astros claim was the limited time they cheated. Supposedly some teams complained to the league about the Astros cheating before the investigation, but the league did not investigate until after Mike Fiers (former Astros pitcher) went public about the cheating. And the Nationals say they heard the whistling from the Astros dugout during the 2019 World Series, and also that an abnormally high number of players from other teams reached out to them before that series to warn about how the Astros were cheating.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. We can either believe all that other evidence, or we can believe the Astros who say they only cheated in 2017. I know who I believe, and I think the Astros cheated in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. Maybe not all four full seasons, but for at least parts of 4 seasons.
You brought up a crazy conspiracy theory, not me. Calling it that is just factual. None of the things you say are. Not expecting to change your mind or anything. It is obviously closed to anything but a rumor mill that fits your worldview.
There are certainly players that have said every one of those things you mentioned above about the Dodgers for over a a decade as well, by the way.
And yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't give them equal weight or anything. Guys who wear tinfoil hats have opinions. When your opinion is based on fake twitter accounts and mining the internet for every rumor you can find, then it is no more valid than those sources.
Yet still no rational explanation for Altuve’s behavior after his walk off
Indians and Red Sox said Astros cheated in 2018 playoffs. Yankees and Nationals said they cheated in 2019 playoffs.
Sometimes the truth hurts. This Wikipedia article cites to many sources
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_scandal
Huh, crazy he admitted to what he and his teammates did was wrong...
https://elitesportsny.com/2020/02/13/houston-astros-2b-jose-altuve-admits-cheating-was-wrong-video/
I guess, surprisingly, you can trust those in an organization that cheated to tell the truth... Just color me shocked!
In 1965, when Mays won that MVP, he was 34, the same as Freeman at season's end.
As mentioned by others, Mookie Betts is on a HOF trajectory. No idea where his counting numbers will reach but Betts is one of the most complete ball players of the era. I'm hoping he reaches at least 2500 hits and 400 HR. Would be more if he plays till 40. Could be less if injuries crop up.
As for Freddie Freeman he started as a good hitter and then at age 26 he became an exceptional hitter. And then at age 28 he became Superman - playing every game that season and leading the NL in plate appearances in 2021, 2022 and so far in 2023. And of course winning the MVP in the shortened 2020 season - although Betts had the higher WAR. Let Freddie post two more Superman seasons after this one, or accumulate 3 or more very good seasons and he's a very high caliber HOFer.
As Joe M. pointed out Mookie Betts is too seldom included in the probable HOF category. This is his 10th year and he's 30. Career .292 BA. 242 HRs. 6 gold gloves and may not be considered this year because he played EVERYWHERE - and played well. Under-appreciated!
Break up the Royals! They are headed for the top of the putrid AL Central! Of course, I do see them playing at Philadelphia this weekend. I feel that may be more of a challenge than the cratering Mets at home, but still, they are only 21 games out of first, so I'm saying there's a chance.
The Rizzo concussion hits close to home. My son plays HS lacrosse and they do a baseline cognitive test at the beginning of the year. 6th game of season he took a hit and his head bounced off the turf. I knew from the second I saw it, he got a concussion. 2 days later when he felt ok enough to take the cognitive test, his reaction time was 80% slower. I can't even fathom how Rizzo (or anyone) could hit a baseball after suffering a concussion.
My daughter plays HS lacrosse and I just found out she cheated on the baseline. Told me that she intentionally was slower on the baseline so she could pass if worse happened. Then she got a concussion but was able to pass her baseline a few weeks later. AP test time and she needed a high score for the college she wanted and could not study. Lucky she did well. Been playing lacrosse and field hockey (club level as well for years) and gets one in her senior year. Knew it had to be bad when she did not get up (she gets tanked almost every game so not usually a worry). Hope your son is doing well.
My kids school was doing baseline concussion testing and then stopped. My understanding is the baselines were too noisy to be useful in evaluating kids for concussion.
Head injuries are so crazy and the doctors don't all the way understand them yet. I know what you mean by close to home though.
My 15 year old daughter told her soccer coach to take out of a game because she couldn't see the ball anymore. We skipped going to a regular Dr and went straight to a concussion specialist who diagnosed her with a severe concussion. She was out of school for 2 weeks and out of soccer for three months. In that first week afterwards she had two seizures. She did nothing but sleep for two weeks. It was about two months before she acted like her normal self even. Neither of her coaches, her mother, or I saw a play that we thought it might have happened on and she didn't know how it happed either. On video we never saw her head make contact with a player, the ball, the ground, nothing.
After the concussion specialist cleared her, she played soccer for about a month and a half when during a college showcase in Vegas she bounced her head off the ground. The way the back of her head hit the ground, the sound it made, and the way her body rag-dolled afterwards, we all knew immediately it was really bad. (I heard her head hit the ground and I was at least 50 yards away) It was so obvious it was bad that the referee called it halftime immediately. The medic and her coach called me on the field and when I got to her she we still unconscious. They carted her off the field and we took her to the same concussion Dr the next morning. After the first concussion, that nobody even saw happen and caused two seizures, I was sure that this second one, that was so obvious and blatant, was going to be so much much worse. This time she had a headache for two days and had no other ill effects. She was only out of soccer two weeks (two weeks was her return to non contact soccer not all full contact. They don't just send them back to sport it's a gradual return. Physical activity ie running/weights, non contact sport activities, practice with contact, then games) Head injuries make no sense, whatever kind of little hit her head took that first time caused a sever injury and the brutal hit that knocked her unconscious for five minutes hardly did anything at all.
Hope she is doing well now. The school trainers are nice but they cleared my daughter as well right away but did not believe them. Good on you for taking her right away to a good doctor.
Mike and Joe’s Annual Meadowlark Media PosCast Annual Special Trade Deadline Spectacular...For The Cure. 😂
Joe: Chevaliers doesn’t have you on their events page. An item for your publicist...but..you should know. B) Rizzo. One wonders if Mr. Manfred has Mr. Goodell’s phone number. The NFL might have something called a “Concussion Protocol”. (Developed over 30+ years too late but at least it exists). Articles that I’ve read seem to indicate that Rizzo sought out a neurologist on his own. That probably took a lot bc he clearly thinks of himself as a gamer. (He is.) It shouldn’t come to something like that. Ever. MLBPA also owns a bunch of shame here too. You already correctly chastised the Yankees. (Who....at least got the Sabathia and German alcoholic rehab issues right. Even if they needed a violent clubhouse explosion from German to point the way.)
The event at Chevalier's is listed on their event calendar for September: https://www.chevaliersbooks.com/calendar
Thanks. Was not in events section of website. (My first time on their site.)
I personally would be pretty stunned if Stanton ended up a Hall of Famer. I don't think he's going to get to 500 home runs and even if he does there's almost no way he gets particularly close to the career value thresholds that enough voters look at. Add to that that his most important seasons happened in Miami with relatively little fanfare and that he's basically been a disappointment since coming to New York and I'd honestly think it's more likely he falls off the ballot than that he gets in.
To use your word, I’d be stunned if Stanton hit 500 HRs and he fell off the ballot.
Couldn't agree more! His entire approach to hitting is a home run or nothing; he K's a wagon load of times; he's far from a gifted baserunner; and although he was a decent fielder in his early and mid-20's, his fielding range, on the infrequent day he's asked to don a glove, is Luzinski-like. Basically he hits some homers in one of the majors' most homer-friendly parks. Otherwise, he has too quickly become a below average contributor who has too much trouble staying healthy.
It's so much fun having the "Is this person a Hall of Famer?" discussion - as long as we keep it friendly, and remember two important things:
1. A player has to have been in the major leagues for ten years before they can even appear on the ballot.
2. It's a *consensus* *opinion* that gets a player into the HoF, not some arbitrary collection of statistical criteria. And it's a BIG consensus - something like 300 out of 400 voters need to give the "OK".
Anyway, for an off-season exercise, I might suggest going back over the history of the All Star Game and see how many of the players each year wound up making it into the HoF. Which year had the most HoFers? Do any trends appear - has the number gone up or down with expansion?