Joe and I were born almost exactly a year apart. I've been a huge fan of his for many many years. I've been a rabid baseball fan, a less-rabid baseball fan, I've played (and won!) in rotisserie leagues.
But I do not have a job in or adjacent to the sport itself. I've just been one of those people MLB could count on to buy tickets, jerseys, streaming subscriptions, etc. I've done so throughout a lot of baseball's labor problems. I was crushed by the last strike, although I was younger then and evidently more resilient.
Today, I really have zero enthusiasm for the upcoming season. I have no enthusiasm to continue to root for the laundry. I do believe I will always be in awe of what professional athletes can do, but I just don't care about supporting these businesses we call MLB teams any longer with my money.
Congrats on reaching a deal, MLB. Enjoy your season.
As an old (67) lifetime baseball fan, I gotta say I've grown terribly ambivalent about the game at the MLB level. I still watch it (even as the games get sooooo long and actionless), still check boxscores in the sports pages...errra...internet, still follow the game closely. What's different? I no longer spend a penny on anything MLB related. I've bought my last cap, my last ticket to a game, my last MLB TV package. If they get together and play, great. If they don't...I've got plenty of other things to do. My suggestion to those of you jonesing for ball, watch college baseball, it's a very good product and will be around until the summer starts. BTW, None of my 3 daughters or their husband's, or my 7 grandkids, or any of my neices and nephews, give a rat's ass about baseball. Nice job alienating the future, MLB.
The MLBPA doesn’t bargain on behalf of minor leaguers for the same reason the NBA Players Ass’n and NFL PA don’t bargain on behalf of college athletes: They aren’t in the union (yet).
That said, your point about the player reps all being FAs without an international background is excellent.
As a retired union member. . . The way it is supposed to work is the union negotiates only for members, but members all realize higher union wages also means higher non-union wages because the non-union pay has to be somewhat competitive or the workers will leave their jobs. Strong unions benefit all workers. Except this system does not apply to league ballplayers, who can't go somewhere else and look for better pay and conditions - maybe they could form their own union. Maybe the MLBPA (and even Scott Boras!) should help with that.
And you know what? I don't care about them either. I love watching baseball, but if the owners want to lock out the season, then I will easily find other things to do in the sunshine. If the owners want to lock out every season between now and forever, then I will find other things, other sports, other people. Those things may well include old baseball books, but I will quite happily manage.
When I go to bed on a day when the owners have cancelled another week of baseball, I'm not thinking about that, because I have a life and other things to think about.
"One" of the many problems with MLB is the competitive balance that continues to slide more and more apart. Nothing in these "negotiations" tend to address this; and I guess it your a fan of one of the "have" teams you're fine with it, but I (Twins fan) don't care about either side, because neither side cares about me.
In the last 20 years there have been only 2 small market teams that have won a championship (the Royals in 2015 and Marlins in 2003). And then we wonder why large swaths of the country don't seem to care about baseball.
If baseball had a commissioner with real power or character, they'd get both negotiating teams in the room and say "Alright. We're at $700k or $710k for minimum salaries. $705k it is. Moving on. It's time to end this." They just not that far apart on the financials (if the reports are correct).
Neither side is covering itself in glory over these negotiations that much is true. But, the owners seem more malicious where the players seem more incompetent. I have a little more sympathy for incompetence than maliciousness but neither is particularly appealing.
As a Kansas City Royals fan (that should tell you a bit about me) who last held (partial) season tickets in 1994, (which tells a little more) I would still attend several ballgames every season. Buck Nights and Friday Fireworks fill the seats.
A few consecutive years of excitement that culminated in a 2015 championship ignited our interest AND spending on all things MLB and Royal Blue.
But throw in several not-so-exciting consecutive seasons, a pandemic shutdown, and everything else going on in the world and I don’t think I’m the only fan sitting on the brink of “Who gives a (bleep) about baseball?!” Timing is everything fellas. And yours sucks.
I think Joe should go into more detail about his own experiences as a young reporter with the Augusta Chronicle and Cincinnati Post, when immediately after he was hired he was made shop steward and placed on the union negotiating committee. Because that is always how it happens, and so the MLBPA is clearly doing something different.
I don't really disagree with the problem Joe has with the optics of the players involved in negotiations being some of the highest-paid in the game. However, if a fringe-MLB-level player who had not yet reached free agency was a visible face of negotiations with - and against - MLB, I wonder if they would *ever* be able sign a contract in free agency, as there would almost certainly be a soft collusion among ownership against that player. I suppose I see a scenario where a top talent like Vlad Jr.* or Corbin Burnes could be a face of MLBPA labor talks, but it would have to be a talent at that level. Otherwise, they'd be blacklisted. Remember, even Andre Dawson had to sign for whatever the Cubs decided to pay him in 1986.
*incidentally, Vlad would be a player not born in the USA, PR, Japan, Korea, or Canada to speak on the international draft issue
Despite player assurances otherwise, I understood that part of intl. draft issue had to do with US players not wanting any means that made it easier for teams to a) consider intl players, b) use intl players as competitive wedge against union, and c) us player agents being unable to represent those players. If those are their concerns, they’re going to need to spend a time researching this issue. Something they most assuredly haven’t done. And if owners are introducing a plan, the plan is most assuredly is not in players favor.
Respectfully, Joe's facts here are really incomplete, and biased against the players. It is true that the owners have raised the prospect of an international draft for years: and the players have never entertained it. Both sides know are well aware of this. For the owners to bring it up in the negotiations now and claim that the players never said no is flat-our inaccurate.
Moreover, Joe seems to suggest that a draft will help control corruption and exploitation amount international draftees. That got a literal LOL by me -- that conclusion simply does not follow. What DOES follow is that this is yet another way to pay players less than they are worth.
No one is saying the owners just now brought up the int’l draft. The question is when they first tied it to eliminating the qualifying offer to FAs - had the issues always been tied together?
Also, Joe didn’t say the draft would fix international corruption. He said he didn’t know.
Probably not. It’s certainly not the reason the owners are proposing it. Joe just observed the whole thing is a complicated cesspool. He wasn’t taking a side about whether it’s a good idea.
Joe and I were born almost exactly a year apart. I've been a huge fan of his for many many years. I've been a rabid baseball fan, a less-rabid baseball fan, I've played (and won!) in rotisserie leagues.
But I do not have a job in or adjacent to the sport itself. I've just been one of those people MLB could count on to buy tickets, jerseys, streaming subscriptions, etc. I've done so throughout a lot of baseball's labor problems. I was crushed by the last strike, although I was younger then and evidently more resilient.
Today, I really have zero enthusiasm for the upcoming season. I have no enthusiasm to continue to root for the laundry. I do believe I will always be in awe of what professional athletes can do, but I just don't care about supporting these businesses we call MLB teams any longer with my money.
Congrats on reaching a deal, MLB. Enjoy your season.
I'm glad our long national nightmare is over. I, too, wonder why they don't do anything for the players in the minors.
As an old (67) lifetime baseball fan, I gotta say I've grown terribly ambivalent about the game at the MLB level. I still watch it (even as the games get sooooo long and actionless), still check boxscores in the sports pages...errra...internet, still follow the game closely. What's different? I no longer spend a penny on anything MLB related. I've bought my last cap, my last ticket to a game, my last MLB TV package. If they get together and play, great. If they don't...I've got plenty of other things to do. My suggestion to those of you jonesing for ball, watch college baseball, it's a very good product and will be around until the summer starts. BTW, None of my 3 daughters or their husband's, or my 7 grandkids, or any of my neices and nephews, give a rat's ass about baseball. Nice job alienating the future, MLB.
good grief
The MLBPA doesn’t bargain on behalf of minor leaguers for the same reason the NBA Players Ass’n and NFL PA don’t bargain on behalf of college athletes: They aren’t in the union (yet).
That said, your point about the player reps all being FAs without an international background is excellent.
As a retired union member. . . The way it is supposed to work is the union negotiates only for members, but members all realize higher union wages also means higher non-union wages because the non-union pay has to be somewhat competitive or the workers will leave their jobs. Strong unions benefit all workers. Except this system does not apply to league ballplayers, who can't go somewhere else and look for better pay and conditions - maybe they could form their own union. Maybe the MLBPA (and even Scott Boras!) should help with that.
I may be done with baseball. I've canceled my MLBTV subscription. I will reconsider my decision during spring training of 2023.
The owners don't care about any of us here.
And you know what? I don't care about them either. I love watching baseball, but if the owners want to lock out the season, then I will easily find other things to do in the sunshine. If the owners want to lock out every season between now and forever, then I will find other things, other sports, other people. Those things may well include old baseball books, but I will quite happily manage.
When I go to bed on a day when the owners have cancelled another week of baseball, I'm not thinking about that, because I have a life and other things to think about.
There is always high school and college games. I went to several high school games last spring and really enjoyed it.
Amen! Turning on MLB is NOT turning on baseball.
"One" of the many problems with MLB is the competitive balance that continues to slide more and more apart. Nothing in these "negotiations" tend to address this; and I guess it your a fan of one of the "have" teams you're fine with it, but I (Twins fan) don't care about either side, because neither side cares about me.
When is the NFL draft?
I’m surprised the MLBPA hasn’t demanded a salary floor.
In the last 20 years there have been only 2 small market teams that have won a championship (the Royals in 2015 and Marlins in 2003). And then we wonder why large swaths of the country don't seem to care about baseball.
If baseball had a commissioner with real power or character, they'd get both negotiating teams in the room and say "Alright. We're at $700k or $710k for minimum salaries. $705k it is. Moving on. It's time to end this." They just not that far apart on the financials (if the reports are correct).
The commissioner isn’t a neutral third party. He represents the owners.
And the last one that acted as a neutral got run out of office immediately (Vincent).
Neither side is covering itself in glory over these negotiations that much is true. But, the owners seem more malicious where the players seem more incompetent. I have a little more sympathy for incompetence than maliciousness but neither is particularly appealing.
As a Kansas City Royals fan (that should tell you a bit about me) who last held (partial) season tickets in 1994, (which tells a little more) I would still attend several ballgames every season. Buck Nights and Friday Fireworks fill the seats.
A few consecutive years of excitement that culminated in a 2015 championship ignited our interest AND spending on all things MLB and Royal Blue.
But throw in several not-so-exciting consecutive seasons, a pandemic shutdown, and everything else going on in the world and I don’t think I’m the only fan sitting on the brink of “Who gives a (bleep) about baseball?!” Timing is everything fellas. And yours sucks.
Also a Royals fan. Those 3 years seem almost like a mirage considering all the losing that came before and after.
I think Joe should go into more detail about his own experiences as a young reporter with the Augusta Chronicle and Cincinnati Post, when immediately after he was hired he was made shop steward and placed on the union negotiating committee. Because that is always how it happens, and so the MLBPA is clearly doing something different.
Hmmm …
I don't really disagree with the problem Joe has with the optics of the players involved in negotiations being some of the highest-paid in the game. However, if a fringe-MLB-level player who had not yet reached free agency was a visible face of negotiations with - and against - MLB, I wonder if they would *ever* be able sign a contract in free agency, as there would almost certainly be a soft collusion among ownership against that player. I suppose I see a scenario where a top talent like Vlad Jr.* or Corbin Burnes could be a face of MLBPA labor talks, but it would have to be a talent at that level. Otherwise, they'd be blacklisted. Remember, even Andre Dawson had to sign for whatever the Cubs decided to pay him in 1986.
*incidentally, Vlad would be a player not born in the USA, PR, Japan, Korea, or Canada to speak on the international draft issue
Actually, Vladdy was born in Montreal, but was living in Dominican Republic when he was signed (so still came as an international FA).
Ah, didn't know that! Adds a slight layer of poetry to the fact that he's a Blue Jay now - maybe eventually a Montreal MLB franchise player?
Joe, thank you for a balanced commentary on this prolonged, agonizing negotiation.
Despite player assurances otherwise, I understood that part of intl. draft issue had to do with US players not wanting any means that made it easier for teams to a) consider intl players, b) use intl players as competitive wedge against union, and c) us player agents being unable to represent those players. If those are their concerns, they’re going to need to spend a time researching this issue. Something they most assuredly haven’t done. And if owners are introducing a plan, the plan is most assuredly is not in players favor.
Respectfully, Joe's facts here are really incomplete, and biased against the players. It is true that the owners have raised the prospect of an international draft for years: and the players have never entertained it. Both sides know are well aware of this. For the owners to bring it up in the negotiations now and claim that the players never said no is flat-our inaccurate.
Moreover, Joe seems to suggest that a draft will help control corruption and exploitation amount international draftees. That got a literal LOL by me -- that conclusion simply does not follow. What DOES follow is that this is yet another way to pay players less than they are worth.
No one is saying the owners just now brought up the int’l draft. The question is when they first tied it to eliminating the qualifying offer to FAs - had the issues always been tied together?
Also, Joe didn’t say the draft would fix international corruption. He said he didn’t know.
I can answer that one: it won't. :)
Probably not. It’s certainly not the reason the owners are proposing it. Joe just observed the whole thing is a complicated cesspool. He wasn’t taking a side about whether it’s a good idea.
W a nod to ‘Omar’,
“[Owners] triflin’ basically … [stealing from MLBPA] & all … don’t get it twisted [players] done some dirt too but … “
Ha! EXACTLY.
Concur.