.... are you perhaps conflating Craig Biggio with Jeff Bagwell? While Biggio undeniably bulked up, he was never linked, accused, mentioned or even suspected of PED use. His candidacy was, mostly, a fight between the "quantity" and "quality" crowd as his pursuit of 3000 hits had (mostly) deluded his peak accomplishments as he limped to the end of his career.
Bagwell's candidacy, OTOH, was absolutely PED-driven, and it was Piazza's election, I would argue, that made it nearly impossible to deny Bagwell.
Really honored that you liked the book, Joe, and so excited for tonight. No offense taken with the Ella Funt joke ... we've been making it in my family for years!
My question is why these morality issues don't come up in other sports. The clouds hanging over Ray Lewis and Kobe Bryant would at least hurt their HOF chances in baseball, but in their actual sports they are held up as heroes.
Michael Lewis did a fantastic deep dive into sports gambling on his Against the Rules podcast about a year ago. Here's a link to the main page for the podcast, then you have to click on Season 4 to get to the episode list/links.
I am finally losing interest in the annual Hall of Fame season and writer justifications for ballots. I've never cared for the veterans committee, but this has to be the worst one ever. I believe all ballots for the writers and committees should now be public.
There is absolutely no one of interest elected this year by either the writers nor those horrid veterans committees.
Probably the worst candidate for on field accomplishments got in on the veterans ballot and we get 2 disgraces for an on field scandal along with yet another abuser.
We don't have to repeat mistakes of the past and I certainly hope Beltran's plaque mentions his leadership for the 2017 Trashcan.
I probably listed Andruw as one of my down ballot picks because he was one of the best CF I've ever witnessed, but he is not deserving of the induction ceremony at the podium.
Veterans committee inductees should be a separate private induction by the committee itself on a different date.
I cannot make sense of the anti-PED crowd giving more credit to a borderline at best pitcher over 2 of the greatest right handed bats ever.
Let me know when it's 2029 and can look forward to Greinke and Votto.
It seems quite likely that more articles, columns, posts, etc. linking Bonds and the Hall of Fame have been written than would have been had he just been voted in
The Hall of Fame should pursue two priorities: to recognize (not lionize) the greatest players of the game, while at the same time provide an accurate and objective description of how these players effected the history (and integrity) of the game, for better or worse. Thus, Clemons, Bonds, A-Rod, etc should get their plaque citing their outstanding achievements, but the plaque should directly and clearly describe their misdeeds. Certain players, like Rose, may have committed acts of such heinous nature, including acts of sexual assault or gambling on baseball, that they may be banned entirely. It's like the issue in the South of having statues honoring Robert E. Lee as a skilled general. Sure, have a statue to Lee. Just make sure it says, in bold letters, he was a slaver, a traitor and ultimately a loser.
I'm waiting to see if Carlos Beltran's HOF plaque mentions his role in the Astros sign-stealing scandal. After all, they kind of avoided mentioning Gaylord Perry's admitted use of the spitball on his plaque.
The word "allegedly" implies someone may not have done what they were accused of or charged with, but Jones pleaded guilty. I know that doesn't mean we know *exactly* what he did, but Andrew Jones physically abused his wife.
Joe, you wrote a column suggesting a 'line in the sand' about PED usage where anyone caught using after baseball officially banned PEDs should not be allowed induction. I agree with you. Bonds and Clemens absolutely deserve a plaque. Manny, Sosa, McGwire and Braun do not. And neither does Pete Rose since I'm on the subject of the Hall of Fame. You can't bet on baseball - PERIOD!
.... are you perhaps conflating Craig Biggio with Jeff Bagwell? While Biggio undeniably bulked up, he was never linked, accused, mentioned or even suspected of PED use. His candidacy was, mostly, a fight between the "quantity" and "quality" crowd as his pursuit of 3000 hits had (mostly) deluded his peak accomplishments as he limped to the end of his career.
Bagwell's candidacy, OTOH, was absolutely PED-driven, and it was Piazza's election, I would argue, that made it nearly impossible to deny Bagwell.
The Michael Lewis podcast, Against the Rules, has a good season on sports gambling. Worth a listen.
Really honored that you liked the book, Joe, and so excited for tonight. No offense taken with the Ella Funt joke ... we've been making it in my family for years!
My question is why these morality issues don't come up in other sports. The clouds hanging over Ray Lewis and Kobe Bryant would at least hurt their HOF chances in baseball, but in their actual sports they are held up as heroes.
Michael Lewis did a fantastic deep dive into sports gambling on his Against the Rules podcast about a year ago. Here's a link to the main page for the podcast, then you have to click on Season 4 to get to the episode list/links.
https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/against-the-rules#episodes
I keep hoping for something new in these HoF discussions. But, no.
So, you're saying that Omar Vizquel still has a chance!
"I voted for both players, so I am certainly not making a judgment." is either an incredibly disingenuous or very poorly crafted sentence.
I am finally losing interest in the annual Hall of Fame season and writer justifications for ballots. I've never cared for the veterans committee, but this has to be the worst one ever. I believe all ballots for the writers and committees should now be public.
There is absolutely no one of interest elected this year by either the writers nor those horrid veterans committees.
Probably the worst candidate for on field accomplishments got in on the veterans ballot and we get 2 disgraces for an on field scandal along with yet another abuser.
We don't have to repeat mistakes of the past and I certainly hope Beltran's plaque mentions his leadership for the 2017 Trashcan.
I probably listed Andruw as one of my down ballot picks because he was one of the best CF I've ever witnessed, but he is not deserving of the induction ceremony at the podium.
Veterans committee inductees should be a separate private induction by the committee itself on a different date.
I cannot make sense of the anti-PED crowd giving more credit to a borderline at best pitcher over 2 of the greatest right handed bats ever.
Let me know when it's 2029 and can look forward to Greinke and Votto.
It seems quite likely that more articles, columns, posts, etc. linking Bonds and the Hall of Fame have been written than would have been had he just been voted in
The Hall of Fame should pursue two priorities: to recognize (not lionize) the greatest players of the game, while at the same time provide an accurate and objective description of how these players effected the history (and integrity) of the game, for better or worse. Thus, Clemons, Bonds, A-Rod, etc should get their plaque citing their outstanding achievements, but the plaque should directly and clearly describe their misdeeds. Certain players, like Rose, may have committed acts of such heinous nature, including acts of sexual assault or gambling on baseball, that they may be banned entirely. It's like the issue in the South of having statues honoring Robert E. Lee as a skilled general. Sure, have a statue to Lee. Just make sure it says, in bold letters, he was a slaver, a traitor and ultimately a loser.
I'm waiting to see if Carlos Beltran's HOF plaque mentions his role in the Astros sign-stealing scandal. After all, they kind of avoided mentioning Gaylord Perry's admitted use of the spitball on his plaque.
Am I right that the morality train gained momentum following the Reagan years?—not intended as a political q
The word "allegedly" implies someone may not have done what they were accused of or charged with, but Jones pleaded guilty. I know that doesn't mean we know *exactly* what he did, but Andrew Jones physically abused his wife.
Joe, so glad you are back at Substack. Just had to tell you that.
Joe, you wrote a column suggesting a 'line in the sand' about PED usage where anyone caught using after baseball officially banned PEDs should not be allowed induction. I agree with you. Bonds and Clemens absolutely deserve a plaque. Manny, Sosa, McGwire and Braun do not. And neither does Pete Rose since I'm on the subject of the Hall of Fame. You can't bet on baseball - PERIOD!