Here’s a Hall of Fame thing I had never really thought about before: The Hall of Fame is shaped the way it is in large part because it was founded in 1936.
The best improvement you could make - have a parallel Hall of Seasons. Fan vote. Top 100 position player and pitcher seasons of all time (200 total) for players who are NOT in the JoeBlogs hall proper. This is where we can honor Roger Maris, Dwight Gooden, Tim Lincecum, and others whose careers may not be hall-worthy but whose stars shined brightest in baseball for a short period of time. Annual re-vote as new players get added to the JoeBlogs Hall and as new moments are created.
Bonds and Clemens can wait; I’m sure they’ll go in later. Pujols and Musial have arguments for being on this ballot but it’s hard for me to fathom a hall without Ruth, Gehrig, Aaron, or Williams. Gibson has a serious case at catcher and Charleston deserves a mention, but Paige was the iconic NL star, so he gets first recognition here. Chadwick over Bill James for his initial impact. I’m sure I’ll include Bill on later ballots.
Unless I missed it, and I read all of the postings, not one of us baseball nerds has mentioned Marvin Julian Miller, so allow me to assert that he should be a first ballot guy in any and all baseball Halls of Fame.
I’d love to have a wing in your Hall of Fame where the shooting stars of baseball were recognized and honored. Players who excelled at the very high PEAK levels for short spans of time. These players hold such a special place in baseball’s history and in many fans’ memories.
Players like:
Gooden, Reiser, D Murphy, Charlie Smith, Fidrych, Rosen, D Parker, Lincecum...
What I'd like to see is a list of the 10 best "forgotten" players at each position not in the HOF. By forgotten, I mean only eligible players, no one currently on the ballot and no special cases, so no Beltre, Pujols, Kent, Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, etc. Basically who the small committees should be considering. Even the players who have no shot have careers worth remembering.
Joe - Since we know you will eventually get to everyone of importance. How about about having a theme around each release of your Hall of Fame. For example, I would love to see you start with your Hall of Fame by Position (plus) based solely on players you have actually seen in person. Or perhaps your team of your "favorite" players (who otherwise qualify), aka the Duane Kuiper All-Stars. One other idea that you should steal from various high school and college Halls, enshrine "Teams" as a group. Kind of like the Rock and Roll Hall enshrining bands and individuals. Looking forward to reading this.
Fine...I'll put my rudimentary knowledge of our Pastime on display:
C - Mike Piazza (Bench for defense and Piazza for offense, hands down)
1B - Lou Gehrig (Career Avgs: BA .340, OBP .444 (not a typo), 2nd most consecutive games ever played.
2B - Rogers Hornsby (Hornsby hit .403 over a five year period in the 1920s...you can look it up!)
3B - Mike Schmidt (Beltre can complain but Schmitty was the greatest!)
SS - Alex Rodriguez (closely edges out Honus Wagner with his monster defense)
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
SP - Sandy Koufax
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Roger Clemens
WC - Bill James (the man that brought to you WAR, RC, Pythagorean Theorem of MLB, etc.)
WC - Vin Scully (Imagine living the life of Vin Scully in baseball? I'd wait an eternity for the opportunity and then heaven wouldn't matter. I'd already experienced heaven!)
The one that has Aaron over Ruth, Pujols over Gehrig and Joe Morgan anywhere but ignores Rogers Hornsby, Jackie Robinson, Frankie Frisch or Charlie Gehringer. Because this is just history to most of the folks here, doesn't mean these players didn't play and weren't really, really, really good at their positions. I can't believe I'm arguing for Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Rogers Hornsby. Beltre vs Schmidt almost seems even.
Man, this constant Hall of Fame talk only means one thing...we are bored and have nothing to talk about until spring training opens up in a couple weeks. We make this way too complicated.
There are 313 players all-time with a WAR of 50.0 or above, with 14 of those not yet eligible. I call it "The Roy Oswalt Line", who perfectly embodies a player just good enough to get in. I know we love coming up with our rules and rationale for who does and doesn't get in, but if you look at that listing it is clear the computer does a better job that any human. We are all so biased.
I love Mad Dog Russo and watch High Heat almost every day. But he shows he's no more or less biased than every one of us. This week, he tried to say Zack Greinke doesn't deserve to get in. That's preposterous. He's just a guy that didn't want to play on the east coast and avoided the media. It's not even close whether he deserves to get in. He has a 76.5 WAR, in the same area of Justin Verlander and Clayton Kershaw.
Scroll down the list and you will nod your head and understand. The only people you don't know are the old timers. There is a significant dropoff after Roy at 50.0.
It's called the "Hot Stove League" and it's familiar to old-timers like me but may not be known by yutes like you. There is over a century of baseball to discuss and that's only going back to the turn of the last century. If you think you've talked and considered it all, you have another think coming. I'm not bored! I'll talk to you about the HOF after Opening Day, the All-Star Game or before the Playoffs. This game is so great (baseball) that the next best game comes in 3rd place!
Baseball is entertainment. It's excitement and disappointment, the highs and lows and everything in between. My personal Hall of Fame class would be heavily weighted towards the people that provided maximum excitement.
Nice list! Really! But I would have to make one change. While I hope Bonds goes to the HOF, he was not the greatest...give Teddy Baseball his 5 seasons back and even his raw numbers catch up, not that he was a slouch with his averages. I suppose I don't understand penalizing a ballplayer for their lack of opportunities at some point. Teddy reaches that point.
I haven't looked at all of these, but I saw 3 or 4 in a row saying Pujols over Gehrig, and that is just nuts.
Don't get me wrong, I love Pujols. I saw him play in Community College and picked him out to be a star then, so his career always seemed personal to me. His first decade was one of the best things I have seen in baseball.
But their is no comparison. Gehrig has 12 more WAR in almost 3400 PAs. His OPS+ is 178 to Pujols 145. His OPS+ for his career is better than that amazing 10 year stretch, and he finished 4th in the MVP race in a year he was already showing symptoms. I know there wasn't immigration, and that makes a difference. But not as big as that gap.
A few of my choices are admittedly based on my own interpretation of pure “baseballness”:
C-Josh Gibson
1B-Gehrig
2B-Robinson
SS-Ozzie Smith
3B-Brooks Robinson
OF-Ruth
OF-Mays
OF-Williams
P-Pedro
P-Koufax
P-Ryan
WC-Aaron
WC-Musial
Please please please include Dan Quisenberry somehow.
Please do this via an enduring online website.
The best improvement you could make - have a parallel Hall of Seasons. Fan vote. Top 100 position player and pitcher seasons of all time (200 total) for players who are NOT in the JoeBlogs hall proper. This is where we can honor Roger Maris, Dwight Gooden, Tim Lincecum, and others whose careers may not be hall-worthy but whose stars shined brightest in baseball for a short period of time. Annual re-vote as new players get added to the JoeBlogs Hall and as new moments are created.
Here are my first 13:
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Jackie Robinson
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Babe Ruth
SP - Cy Young
SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Satchel Paige
WC - Henry Chadwick
WC - Henry Aaron
Bonds and Clemens can wait; I’m sure they’ll go in later. Pujols and Musial have arguments for being on this ballot but it’s hard for me to fathom a hall without Ruth, Gehrig, Aaron, or Williams. Gibson has a serious case at catcher and Charleston deserves a mention, but Paige was the iconic NL star, so he gets first recognition here. Chadwick over Bill James for his initial impact. I’m sure I’ll include Bill on later ballots.
It's a nice list. I do have a hard time believing that only 1 player from the last 40 years makes the cut in the all-time first team.
Unless I missed it, and I read all of the postings, not one of us baseball nerds has mentioned Marvin Julian Miller, so allow me to assert that he should be a first ballot guy in any and all baseball Halls of Fame.
Yes. Terrible oversight by everyone including me!
He’s in my first class!
I’d love to have a wing in your Hall of Fame where the shooting stars of baseball were recognized and honored. Players who excelled at the very high PEAK levels for short spans of time. These players hold such a special place in baseball’s history and in many fans’ memories.
Players like:
Gooden, Reiser, D Murphy, Charlie Smith, Fidrych, Rosen, D Parker, Lincecum...
See my comment above (hadn't read yours first) - The Hall of Seasons.
That would have to be The Bird Wing.
What I'd like to see is a list of the 10 best "forgotten" players at each position not in the HOF. By forgotten, I mean only eligible players, no one currently on the ballot and no special cases, so no Beltre, Pujols, Kent, Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, etc. Basically who the small committees should be considering. Even the players who have no shot have careers worth remembering.
Really, Really Excited about this; here would be by top 7 entires by position:
Catcher:
Johnny Bench
Gary Carter
Yogi Berra
Roy Campanella
Mike Piazza
Carlton Fisk
Ivan Rodriguez
First Base:
Lou Gehrig
Albert Pujols
Johnny Mize
Jim Thome
Hank Greenberg
Jimmie Foxx
Frank Thomas
Second Base:
Jackie Robinson
Eddie Collins
Nap Lajoie
Joe Morgan
Rogers Hornsby
Charlie Gehringer
Ryne Sandberg
Third Base:
Eddie Matthews
Mike Schmidt
Brooks Robinson
Chipper Jones
Adrián Beltré
Richard Allen
George Brett
Shortstop:
Honus Wagner
Ernie Banks
Ozzie Smith
Cal Ripken, Jr
Derek Jeter
Arky Vaughan
Alex Rodriguez
Left Field:
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds
Tim Raines
Rickey Henderson
Pete Rose
Al Simmons
Yaz
Right Field:
Babe Ruth
Henry Aaron
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Joe Jackson
Stan Musial
Roberto Clemente
Center Field:
Ty Cobb
Tris Speaker
Oscar Charleston
Mickey Mantle
Ken Griffey, Jr
Willie Mays
Joe DiMaggio
Starting Pitcher:
Walter Johnson
Bob Feller
Satchell Paige
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux
Tom Seaver
Joe - Since we know you will eventually get to everyone of importance. How about about having a theme around each release of your Hall of Fame. For example, I would love to see you start with your Hall of Fame by Position (plus) based solely on players you have actually seen in person. Or perhaps your team of your "favorite" players (who otherwise qualify), aka the Duane Kuiper All-Stars. One other idea that you should steal from various high school and college Halls, enshrine "Teams" as a group. Kind of like the Rock and Roll Hall enshrining bands and individuals. Looking forward to reading this.
Fine...I'll put my rudimentary knowledge of our Pastime on display:
C - Mike Piazza (Bench for defense and Piazza for offense, hands down)
1B - Lou Gehrig (Career Avgs: BA .340, OBP .444 (not a typo), 2nd most consecutive games ever played.
2B - Rogers Hornsby (Hornsby hit .403 over a five year period in the 1920s...you can look it up!)
3B - Mike Schmidt (Beltre can complain but Schmitty was the greatest!)
SS - Alex Rodriguez (closely edges out Honus Wagner with his monster defense)
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
SP - Sandy Koufax
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Roger Clemens
WC - Bill James (the man that brought to you WAR, RC, Pythagorean Theorem of MLB, etc.)
WC - Vin Scully (Imagine living the life of Vin Scully in baseball? I'd wait an eternity for the opportunity and then heaven wouldn't matter. I'd already experienced heaven!)
The one that has Aaron over Ruth, Pujols over Gehrig and Joe Morgan anywhere but ignores Rogers Hornsby, Jackie Robinson, Frankie Frisch or Charlie Gehringer. Because this is just history to most of the folks here, doesn't mean these players didn't play and weren't really, really, really good at their positions. I can't believe I'm arguing for Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Rogers Hornsby. Beltre vs Schmidt almost seems even.
Man, this constant Hall of Fame talk only means one thing...we are bored and have nothing to talk about until spring training opens up in a couple weeks. We make this way too complicated.
There are 313 players all-time with a WAR of 50.0 or above, with 14 of those not yet eligible. I call it "The Roy Oswalt Line", who perfectly embodies a player just good enough to get in. I know we love coming up with our rules and rationale for who does and doesn't get in, but if you look at that listing it is clear the computer does a better job that any human. We are all so biased.
I love Mad Dog Russo and watch High Heat almost every day. But he shows he's no more or less biased than every one of us. This week, he tried to say Zack Greinke doesn't deserve to get in. That's preposterous. He's just a guy that didn't want to play on the east coast and avoided the media. It's not even close whether he deserves to get in. He has a 76.5 WAR, in the same area of Justin Verlander and Clayton Kershaw.
Scroll down the list and you will nod your head and understand. The only people you don't know are the old timers. There is a significant dropoff after Roy at 50.0.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml
It's called the "Hot Stove League" and it's familiar to old-timers like me but may not be known by yutes like you. There is over a century of baseball to discuss and that's only going back to the turn of the last century. If you think you've talked and considered it all, you have another think coming. I'm not bored! I'll talk to you about the HOF after Opening Day, the All-Star Game or before the Playoffs. This game is so great (baseball) that the next best game comes in 3rd place!
I see no need for umpires or commissioners in the hall of fame. Please correct this wrong
surely you mean DWIGHT evans, not DARREL?
Nope. He very definitely means Darrell. This has come up before.
Baseball is entertainment. It's excitement and disappointment, the highs and lows and everything in between. My personal Hall of Fame class would be heavily weighted towards the people that provided maximum excitement.
C: Johnny Bench
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Babe Ruth
P: Roger Clemons
P: Walter Johnson
P: Pedro Martinez
WC: Jackie Robinson
WC: Ty Cobb
Nice list! Really! But I would have to make one change. While I hope Bonds goes to the HOF, he was not the greatest...give Teddy Baseball his 5 seasons back and even his raw numbers catch up, not that he was a slouch with his averages. I suppose I don't understand penalizing a ballplayer for their lack of opportunities at some point. Teddy reaches that point.
I haven't looked at all of these, but I saw 3 or 4 in a row saying Pujols over Gehrig, and that is just nuts.
Don't get me wrong, I love Pujols. I saw him play in Community College and picked him out to be a star then, so his career always seemed personal to me. His first decade was one of the best things I have seen in baseball.
But their is no comparison. Gehrig has 12 more WAR in almost 3400 PAs. His OPS+ is 178 to Pujols 145. His OPS+ for his career is better than that amazing 10 year stretch, and he finished 4th in the MVP race in a year he was already showing symptoms. I know there wasn't immigration, and that makes a difference. But not as big as that gap.
That should be 3400 LESS PAs.
P.S. - I Imagine Joe's 10 groups of players will be divided somewhat by era, anyway. I could be wrong.