Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Simon DelMonte's avatar

This landed in my inbox while Paul Simon's "Cool Papa Bell" was playing.

tmutchell's avatar

The cynic in me wants to say that we should take these all with a grain of salt, if not the whole shaker. After all, they're not so much scouting reports as they are O'Neill's reminiscences from 50+ years before, in some cases, just musings about guys he never saw.

The cynic says that the only reason any of those guys is in the Hall is because of Buck O'Neill's lobbying for them. (The non-cynic agrees, but notes that this is a GOOD thing!)

I mean, take Smokey Joe Williams. His record on Baseball Reference is underwhelming to say the least: 16-19 in about 50 games over four seasons. Leon Day's record shows that he pitched 100+ innings in a season just twice, and only once won more than 8 contests in a year. Andy Cooper struck out 4 batters per nine innings in his career. Louis Santop's major league career, such as it was spanned just 4 seasons and was worth 2.5 WAR. None of it sounds like much.

But then the cynic in me is kind of a jerk sometimes. In my day job, I get paid to pick apart other people's plans and designs, and I allow that cynicism to leak over into my attention to baseball.

It's OK to have a healthy skepticism of what the numbers tell us. I'm sure, for example, that Turkey Stearnes or Willard Brown would not have hit .350 for their careers against an integrated major league if one had been available to them, if only because nobody else ever has. But that should not mean completely discounting their accomplishments either, or O'Neill's insistence in lobbying for them to be inducted into Cooperstown.

Louis Santop's "Major league" career was in the Eastern Colored League from 1923-26, when he was already 34 years old. He'd been in organized baseball since at least age 21, but nobody was paying too much attention, not enough to really keep track of his exploits. Ditto for Joe Williams, whose "major league" career did not start til he was already 37, and even then he had the best K/W ratio three years running. In reality he pitched from age 23 to 46, in semi-organized Black baseball if not in what we now consider Major leagues. He struck out over 1200 batters and won 137 games, and those are just the ones we know about. He must have pitched more than 7 times for the NY Lincoln Giants in 1915, when he was 29, but that's all we have records for right now, and maybe ever.

So we have to infer a lot about what he and others like him might have done, and yes we have to take O'Neill's word for a lot of it and throw the salt away, because these guys deserve better than to be forgotten just because nobody wrote down what they did often enough.

Thanks for sharing this, Joe. 8 for Sentimentality and an 8 for Fun, which is what baseball is supposed to be for anyway.

12 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?