This is spectacular! So much so I’ve used the si cover from your story for my screensaver! Reminder of when your down you can try and get up! Thanks for a Zack gem 💎 Joe! Happy Baseball ⚾️!
This post is a lot of fun, but I have to say that the reason I didn’t vote for Greinke is that I think it’s unlikely he was one of the 110 best baseball players ever. Am I off base?
No, you’re not alone. When I started reading this I was pretty sure that Greinke really didn’t belong in the Baseball 100 conversation. The stat about Grienke’s WAR has made me reconsider…but I’m not completely convinced. Joe’s write-up is a lot of fun, but doesn’t present much of a case for Grienke’s inclusion on this list.
On the one hand, Greinke is certainly higher on the list than I realized--he snuck up on me! On the other hand, Joe’s list isn’t just a WAR ranking and I’m curious to know what makes him one of the greats in Joe’s eyes.
Well it isn’t just a lot of WAR rankings but WAR is a pretty good indicator. And his WAR rankings compared to Keyshawn, Scherzer, and Holladay certainly says a lot. He also has pretty much the same WAR as Verlander. 3 of those 4 are in Joes 100. I guess I’d ask maybe whether he also should have been in the 100. In fact in one of Joes first 2 drafts of his baseball 100 (both of which he abandoned before finishing) - I think it was version 2- he did have Greinke in the top 100.
So I’d actually be surprised for Greinke to not make the top 110.
The "weather report of his emotions" was a real plus. The second sign in was a negative. And the "78-13 strikeout ratio" is NOT the ratio! The RATIO is 6:1; 78-13 were the totals. I know, all sportswriters do it, but it's wrong. And so you know, the plus still outweighs the negatives; it's just that the negatives are so easy to avoid. Ah well. Zack stories are worth the minute.
As a follow up to my prior post, I’d like to make a few comments about my experience reading The Baseball 100.
I’m a lifelong baseball fan (and player through college) who grew up in Houston following those Brave teams of the late 50s, before the Astros.
I completed the book last month and apparently I’m a little late to the party commenting on players omitted, rankings, etc.
For starters, I was extremely impressed with the apparent research and dedication you put into the book. As with many others, I did question a few things:
*Why not pick 100 players + 25-30 pitchers?
*Disappointed to see Bonds ranking ahead of Aaron and others. Kinda the same with Roger C.
*Without digging into the stats, surprised of omissions of Eddie Murray, Duke Snider, Vlad G, Ralph Kiner, Dave Winfield, Lou Brock, Harmon K
(Pitchers/Whitey Ford, Juan Marichal, Jim Palmer, Carl Hubble)
I understand; only 100 spots 😉
Excited to read about your next 10.
Back to the Milwaukee Braves. Eddie Mathews was my guy. I modeled my swing from his. I was very pleased to read your comments on the lack of respect from the BB writers in delaying his HOF induction.
I do think you missed touting Eddie’s 1953 season as one of the best ever by 3B in the Adrian Beltre chapter.
I also appreciated your affection for the wonderful all-around play of our Astros’ Jeff Bagwell.
Thanks again for a wonderful read. Look forward to your next 10.
Hi Damon. as you are a late follower of Joes, I thought I’d give you some information about his baseball 100 project. His current book is based on a series of blogs he wrote while he was with The Athletic web site. He started his postings in December 2019. Every post has lots and lots of comments- his first one has over 300. When he got to the top ten he started getting over 1,000 comments for each posting. His blogs were wonderful reading, but I have to say I enjoyed those comments almost as much. There was always some discussion/argument about where the player was ranked - but most people came to accept that the rankings were not that important- especially when he put Joe DiMaggio at 56- I’m sure you can guess why. He occasionally used players uniform numbers for some other rankings. But in addition to that there was so much information that various people added to the knowledge base, about the player and/or baseball itself. Every day he has a post I spent hours reading the comments and posting frequently. In fact a community of commenters built up and it was a wonderful on line daily social event- which was super nice because this was happening at the beginning of the pandemic.
If you are not an Athletic subscriber you may want to get a subscription just to read his original Baseball 100 with the comments included. It takes an 840 page book to an encyclopedia level product.
You can still find his baseball 100 post when you search for “Baseball 100” on their website. For some reason I can’t seem to get that search to work on their app.
If you do this I think you’ll get additional hours of enjoyment. Not being able to respond to comments will take away some of the fun but there is a wealth of material.
If you do this you’ll soon find the posts by Nik K and John A -2 among several- to be well worth the price of admission.
A couple of other notes. I think Joe did a little rewriting of his individual posts from his Athletic to book version. Don’t think they were big differences.
But also know that this Baseball 100 was Joe’s third attempt at the project. His first effort started maybe 5-6 years earlier on his blog at the time- pre Substack. He got up to around 34 before he abandoned the project. Then he did version 2 a couple of years after that. Made it up to about 65 before he again abandoned the project. His first two versions had some different players in them then in his final 3rd version. I Think about 20 different guys- version 2 was quite different. As an example Ron Santo made both version 1&2, but not the final version.
His version 2 posts are, I believe, part of this blog and you can find them, but they are not easy to find. I think you have to know the name to put in the search engine. And the blogs for even the same players were definitely different.
I created a spreadsheet that compared the players rankings from version 1, 2, and 3. I think I posted the list in the Ty Cobb comments section.
And somewhere on the web, not in Joes blog, is a reference to and link to his first version blog posts. Can’t remember where that is now. Have to do some googling to find it.
Wow! Thank you for taking time to give me the background leading to his actual book. Also, for your suggestions on gaining more insight from subscribers.
I’m not much of a Techy but might find some of what you referenced.
I have a few family members considered moderate to severe on the autism spectrum and these Zack Greinke anecdotes are very much in line with their unique qualities - the unselfaware way of speaking, saying things that don't fit into the context clues of a conversation, his initial struggles in his new environment followed by sudden incredible thriving once he'd adjusted mentally. Since learning more about ASD and other forms of neurodiversity, I've often wondered how many of the world's "characters" - the lovable flakes and oddballs, the 'that's just X being X' type people that make life interesting - would have been identified as neurodivergent with what we know now.
Ron Guidry has a similar quitting story. In 1976 he was sent back to the minors. As he tells it he was driving out of NYC and telling his wife they might as well go back to Louisiana. They get into Pennsylvania and his wife asks if he really wants to quit. He didn't and the rest, they say, is history.
Maybe the key to developing great pitchers is to go with those on the verge of quitting, but who don't.
I guess you find Zack Greinke a whole lot more fascinating than I do, Joe. You write incessantly about him, and ... I dunno, I guess you had to be there.
OMG, that is such a great read. I love Zack Greinke!
Younger than 75.Verlander, with more bWAR....he should have been top 100, and DEFINITELY should have made the just out of it cut!!
This is spectacular! So much so I’ve used the si cover from your story for my screensaver! Reminder of when your down you can try and get up! Thanks for a Zack gem 💎 Joe! Happy Baseball ⚾️!
This article will go under the category of time well spent. Thank you, Joe!
Last year his Astros teammates had a "dress like Greinke" day. Dusty Baker told him he'd never seen a team do that for a teammate before.
Ok we need more on this one- what does he wear??
Apparently fishing shirts, bucket hats, and somewhat short shorts. The first picture is hilarious: https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Houston-Astros-dress-like-Zack-Greinke-Day-costume-16472616.php
Thanks Joe. What a beautifully written article. This is why I subscribe.
This post is a lot of fun, but I have to say that the reason I didn’t vote for Greinke is that I think it’s unlikely he was one of the 110 best baseball players ever. Am I off base?
No, you’re not alone. When I started reading this I was pretty sure that Greinke really didn’t belong in the Baseball 100 conversation. The stat about Grienke’s WAR has made me reconsider…but I’m not completely convinced. Joe’s write-up is a lot of fun, but doesn’t present much of a case for Grienke’s inclusion on this list.
On the one hand, Greinke is certainly higher on the list than I realized--he snuck up on me! On the other hand, Joe’s list isn’t just a WAR ranking and I’m curious to know what makes him one of the greats in Joe’s eyes.
Well it isn’t just a lot of WAR rankings but WAR is a pretty good indicator. And his WAR rankings compared to Keyshawn, Scherzer, and Holladay certainly says a lot. He also has pretty much the same WAR as Verlander. 3 of those 4 are in Joes 100. I guess I’d ask maybe whether he also should have been in the 100. In fact in one of Joes first 2 drafts of his baseball 100 (both of which he abandoned before finishing) - I think it was version 2- he did have Greinke in the top 100.
So I’d actually be surprised for Greinke to not make the top 110.
The "weather report of his emotions" was a real plus. The second sign in was a negative. And the "78-13 strikeout ratio" is NOT the ratio! The RATIO is 6:1; 78-13 were the totals. I know, all sportswriters do it, but it's wrong. And so you know, the plus still outweighs the negatives; it's just that the negatives are so easy to avoid. Ah well. Zack stories are worth the minute.
What a great way to start my day. A cup of great coffee, and a bunch of Zack stories. I could do this every day.
Dear Joe,
As a follow up to my prior post, I’d like to make a few comments about my experience reading The Baseball 100.
I’m a lifelong baseball fan (and player through college) who grew up in Houston following those Brave teams of the late 50s, before the Astros.
I completed the book last month and apparently I’m a little late to the party commenting on players omitted, rankings, etc.
For starters, I was extremely impressed with the apparent research and dedication you put into the book. As with many others, I did question a few things:
*Why not pick 100 players + 25-30 pitchers?
*Disappointed to see Bonds ranking ahead of Aaron and others. Kinda the same with Roger C.
*Without digging into the stats, surprised of omissions of Eddie Murray, Duke Snider, Vlad G, Ralph Kiner, Dave Winfield, Lou Brock, Harmon K
(Pitchers/Whitey Ford, Juan Marichal, Jim Palmer, Carl Hubble)
I understand; only 100 spots 😉
Excited to read about your next 10.
Back to the Milwaukee Braves. Eddie Mathews was my guy. I modeled my swing from his. I was very pleased to read your comments on the lack of respect from the BB writers in delaying his HOF induction.
I do think you missed touting Eddie’s 1953 season as one of the best ever by 3B in the Adrian Beltre chapter.
I also appreciated your affection for the wonderful all-around play of our Astros’ Jeff Bagwell.
Thanks again for a wonderful read. Look forward to your next 10.
Thanks for your format and for listening.
Kind Regards,
Hi Damon. as you are a late follower of Joes, I thought I’d give you some information about his baseball 100 project. His current book is based on a series of blogs he wrote while he was with The Athletic web site. He started his postings in December 2019. Every post has lots and lots of comments- his first one has over 300. When he got to the top ten he started getting over 1,000 comments for each posting. His blogs were wonderful reading, but I have to say I enjoyed those comments almost as much. There was always some discussion/argument about where the player was ranked - but most people came to accept that the rankings were not that important- especially when he put Joe DiMaggio at 56- I’m sure you can guess why. He occasionally used players uniform numbers for some other rankings. But in addition to that there was so much information that various people added to the knowledge base, about the player and/or baseball itself. Every day he has a post I spent hours reading the comments and posting frequently. In fact a community of commenters built up and it was a wonderful on line daily social event- which was super nice because this was happening at the beginning of the pandemic.
If you are not an Athletic subscriber you may want to get a subscription just to read his original Baseball 100 with the comments included. It takes an 840 page book to an encyclopedia level product.
You can still find his baseball 100 post when you search for “Baseball 100” on their website. For some reason I can’t seem to get that search to work on their app.
If you do this I think you’ll get additional hours of enjoyment. Not being able to respond to comments will take away some of the fun but there is a wealth of material.
If you do this you’ll soon find the posts by Nik K and John A -2 among several- to be well worth the price of admission.
A couple of other notes. I think Joe did a little rewriting of his individual posts from his Athletic to book version. Don’t think they were big differences.
But also know that this Baseball 100 was Joe’s third attempt at the project. His first effort started maybe 5-6 years earlier on his blog at the time- pre Substack. He got up to around 34 before he abandoned the project. Then he did version 2 a couple of years after that. Made it up to about 65 before he again abandoned the project. His first two versions had some different players in them then in his final 3rd version. I Think about 20 different guys- version 2 was quite different. As an example Ron Santo made both version 1&2, but not the final version.
His version 2 posts are, I believe, part of this blog and you can find them, but they are not easy to find. I think you have to know the name to put in the search engine. And the blogs for even the same players were definitely different.
I created a spreadsheet that compared the players rankings from version 1, 2, and 3. I think I posted the list in the Ty Cobb comments section.
And somewhere on the web, not in Joes blog, is a reference to and link to his first version blog posts. Can’t remember where that is now. Have to do some googling to find it.
Good luck and welcome to Joes world.
Ron
Ron H,
Wow! Thank you for taking time to give me the background leading to his actual book. Also, for your suggestions on gaining more insight from subscribers.
I’m not much of a Techy but might find some of what you referenced.
Greatly appreciate the info and kindness.
DL
I look forward to your book about Zack coming out in a few years, Joe!
The best part of the home run video Greinke showed Gordon was that Greinke had his eyes closed when he hit the homer
I have a few family members considered moderate to severe on the autism spectrum and these Zack Greinke anecdotes are very much in line with their unique qualities - the unselfaware way of speaking, saying things that don't fit into the context clues of a conversation, his initial struggles in his new environment followed by sudden incredible thriving once he'd adjusted mentally. Since learning more about ASD and other forms of neurodiversity, I've often wondered how many of the world's "characters" - the lovable flakes and oddballs, the 'that's just X being X' type people that make life interesting - would have been identified as neurodivergent with what we know now.
Yes, it's seems rather obvious doesn't it?
Ron Guidry has a similar quitting story. In 1976 he was sent back to the minors. As he tells it he was driving out of NYC and telling his wife they might as well go back to Louisiana. They get into Pennsylvania and his wife asks if he really wants to quit. He didn't and the rest, they say, is history.
Maybe the key to developing great pitchers is to go with those on the verge of quitting, but who don't.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1979/01/22/yankee-from-louisiana-ron-guidry-the-cajun-with-the-shotgun-left-arm-mowed-down-american-league-hitters-last-season-now-hes-back-home-by-the-bayou-trying-to-be-just-another-guidry
I guess you find Zack Greinke a whole lot more fascinating than I do, Joe. You write incessantly about him, and ... I dunno, I guess you had to be there.
You sound fun.
Joe Posnanski and Zack Greinke. Sportswriting doesn't get much better than this.