Joe, is this contract more about what the Dolans are getting from Jose or about what Jose wants for himself and his family? After all, he initiated the extension. He is ALREADY a Cleveland icon. But there will be a day, when he is 50 years old and has 100 million in the bank when he sits with his family and friends, reflects back in his hall of fame career, and says, “That’s the way you do it.” He did this for his own purposes. And being with his Cleveland family for his whole career was one of them.
I see nothing wrong with this extension, in any way. Good for Jose, good for Cleveland, good for his family, good for the game.
I don't care that Kyle Tucker is getting what Willie Mays in his prime would get today, or that some pitchers might get more or whatever. People go from team to team partially because it is public what everyone is getting, and when it is their time, they want more. Also, of you are less than great, the team moves on from you and tries to replace you with someone younger and cheaper (Like any workplace today for that one)
SO he only made $272 million and not more. That is like a guy getting $5.44 million every year from age 16-65, so I think he will be OK.
It is great to see someone play his career with 1 team. It happens so rarely today. Either the team is unhappy with the performance or cost, or the player wants to win the lottery when they are a free agent, but every once in awhile you can just stay where you are happy and comfortable if you want.
To get some idea of what might be ahead, I present Jose Ramirez' closest similarity score comps through age 32, courtesy of BBRef, with some of the numbers they put up from age 33 on, including their age during their last MLB season:
Scott Rolen (933.2) * 533 G, 519 Hits, 55 HR 109 OPS+, age 37
Shawn Green (923.0) 279 G, 277 Hits, 25 HR, 99 OPS+, age 34
Mookie Betts (918.5) N/A (same age)
David Wright (915.4) 39 G, 31 Hits, 7 HR, 111 OPS+, age 34
Ryan Zimmerman (903.3) 247 G, 182 Hits, 33 HR, 106 OPS+, age 36
Nolan Arenado (899.0) 259 G, 252 Hits, 28 HR, 96 OPS+, age 34, still active
Andre Dawson (894.8) * 1031 G, 1021 Hits, 164 HR, 114 OPS+, age 41
Similarity scores rely only on the counting stats, and I don't think they include steals, or else Scott Rolen might not be so high, since he stole only 118 bases his entire career, while Ramirez will probably cross the 300 mark next season (he has 287 right now).
Unfortunately, almost half of these guys weren't/aren't thirdbasemen, so it's hard to look hopefully at the 1000+ games played by Beltran or the Hawk and fantasize about a productive swan song for Ramirez. Thirdbasemen tend not to age as well as outfielders.
Certainly nobody could reasonably complain about that kind of production in his mid to late 30s. Adding those numbers to his current ones, Ramirez would end up with something like 2,700 Hits, 425 HR, ~1500 Runs & RBI, maybe 65-70 bWAR. That would certainly land him in Cooperstown the first time he becomes eligible. If he can still hit, they'll surely put him at first or DH to keep his bat in the lineup even after he can no longer hack it at the hot corner.
Which is good, because the only "similar" thirdbaseman to play even 600 games after turning 33 was Aramis Ramirez, and even he was done at age 37, two whole years before this contract will end. Rolen played only about 500 more games , Longoria about a hundred less than that, and Zimmerman even less. Wright had a degenerative spinal condition, and Shawn Green chose to retire with the $100M he'd already made rather than move his family from California at age 35, but he could have kept playing if he'd wanted to. Mookie and Arenado are of course incomplete careers at this point, but we can see Arenado's production is already seriously diminished in the last two seasons compared to his prime.
The good news is that there is some precedent for thirdbasemen playing regularly until age 40 or so, albeit not always productively. There are 11 players with at least 900 games after age 33 who played predominantly third base, seven since integration, and five of those (Schmidt, Beltre, Chipper, Boggs and Brooksie) are in Cooperstown. The others are Gary Gaetti and Graig Nettles, who some suggest should be in the Hall himself. (The pre-integration players were Jimmy(s) Dykes and Austin, Lave Cross and Hall of Famer Deacon White, none of which are especially instructive here.)
Ramirez is not especially like any of those, as he steals bases WAY more often than any of them, which might make him more prone to injury going forward, though it has not so far. He's also not especially known for his defense, having never won a Gold Glove, though he has been a finalist several times.
One other way to look at this is that Ramirez is likely to get his 300th HR and 300th Steal in 2026. Only eight players have ever done that: both Bondses, A-Rod, Mays, Dawson, Beltran, Reggie Sanders and Steve Finley. The last of those is a likely PED case (averaged 8 HR/162 games through age 30, 27 HR/162G for the next decade), as are Barry and Rodriguez. Bonds Sr. was the first to ever combine such power and speed, but was done at age 35. Sanders was extremely talented but never had a healthy season after age 26. The other three are in Cooperstown.
Anyway, none of this is to say whether this is a good contract or not. If Ramirez gets hit by a bus or abducted by aliens and we never see him play another game, the Dolans will have gotten more than their money's worth from him. But if he only adds, say, the kinds of numbers that Rolen or Longoria put up after age 32, he may not have such an easy time getting into Cooperstown, since he may finish shy of 2000 hits, and (presumably) without having ever won an MVP. Hopefully not having had to play the first half of his career on astroturf will help assure he does not finish his career as they did. Certainly this contract will cement him as a Cleveland icon, regardless of the actual numbers. Good on them for making sure of that.
As a Tigers fan, I've enjoyed watching Jose Ramirez from across Lake Erie. Third base has long been a revolving door for the Tigers. I don't get mad at players who take the big money, or those who take the home team loyalty discount either. I'm just a fan of long careers with one team. I'm spoiled by Whitaker and Trammell I guess.
Concur from the Heartland (KC). Jose Ramirez is the esteemed foe. We cannot quite love him, because he has killed us too many times, but damn we really, really respect him and I expect he will get a well deserved standing O at the K someday when he is playing his last game there.
I'm surprised Cleveland offered him this deal. This is a great offer for Ramirez -- there's no way he'd earn those paychecks hitting free agency at 36. (Nolan Arenado says hello.)
He's been so underpaid thus far, it's nice that he's get some of that back on the backend of his career.
Hey, Paul. Tom here. This was taken at Hi Corbett Field in Tuscon in 1982, I believe. I wish I still had the jacket, because I would have passed it to my son. It's long gone but I have this old photo and another with George Vukovich(!).
I wonder how much ancillary value there is in being a franchise icon? In other words, the opposite ends of the scale would be a Scott Boras type mercenary player who plays for multiple teams to get every last dollar and Jose. But Jose will have much greater value in advertising, signatures, charity, etc (other opportunities to cash in on his popularity that I can't think of right now) than an equivalent player who hops around chasing a buck. It is obvious that it doesn't equal the 100 million plus that he has forfeited by staying put, but it must be something? Completely irrelevant to that thought, Jose Ramirez has always looked like Pedro Martinez' baby brother to me. Never been able to shake that thought.
Other than Kenny Lofton in stolen bases, José has an excellent chance of eventually passing everyone ahead of him and holding the franchise record in those categories. He is also three good months away from becoming the 9th player in MLB history with 300 home runs and 300 stolen bases, and when he gets there he'll join Willie Mays as the only players to reach those milestones with one team. if he eventually gets to 350 HR and 350 SB, José will be the first player to do that with one team, and join Bobby and Barry Bonds as the only players with so many of each in MLB history.
In addition to a statue at Progressive Field, he should get one at City Hall.
Thanks! I am a Guardians fans who has spreadsheet tabs with franchise leaders for all-time, since integration, and my lifetime leaders in different categories for a few years, so I had put in most of the effort a while ago, and was able to just pull everything from there for this.
I created the spreadsheet so that once every couple weeks in the season, I can update José's (and in some instances, Carlos Santana's) totals, and occasionally move them up a spot. The updates bring me a surprising amount of satisfaction. When José broke Earl Averill's franchise record for extra-base hits, I'd been anticipating that moment for weeks, knowing it was coming. Moving his team to the top of that column was one of the highlights of the 2025 season for me!
He was under contract for 3 more years, becoming a free agent at 36. So if you were his agent you'd have told him not to sign this extension, that he would probably be able to make more than $100M as a 36-year old for his final contract?
You bring up all contracts that favor the owners in retrospect or seemingly real-time. You railed against Kristian Campbell signing before he ever played a game in the bigs and giving up lots of future earnings. Looking smart for Campbell now. These are people's lives not just data points for the union to hold over the owners heads.
Thanks, Joe. This is 100% the exact emotional journey I went on when I heard about the signing. I'm glad he'll be a Guardian for life. I'm happy for Cleveland fans.
Also, something that NEVER gets talked about in this situation is the family stuff. What if his wife and kids really LIKE their life in Cleveland? What if that's worth some amount of money to him? What if it's worth MILLIONS of dollars to him? That's a totally reasonable way for him to feel. He's comfortable enough financially. And if he's happy and his family's happy... that just seems like being a responsible person to do right by your family.
Yeah I'm a little confused here. If Ramirez was under contract through 2028, he would have been a 36-year-old free agent. Would he really be able to earn another $100M+ for the remainder of his career at that point? It seems like this contract increased his eventual career earnings compared to what they might have been if we looked at it last week.
Also, if there is an extended lockout in 2027, and Ramirez wasn't able to get a big contract in 2029, this contract helps recoup some of the potential losses due to the lockout.
It is remarkable the extent to which a great player spending his entire career with a smaller market team has become a luxury. It is like baseball caviar. You can see the intricate hoops both sides had to jump through just to create this situation for Ramírez. It is really to everyone's credit and it creates something good for the player, the fans, and a long-term legacy relationship for the team. I don't think it's going to start any trends, but this is a nice unicorn wearing a Guardians hat and that brings me baseball joy.
Loved the inclusion of Duane Kuiper as a Cleveland sports hero on par with Jim Brown, LeBron, Feller, etc. Never surrender!
Love the Kuiper Cleveland legend reference. And, as a Giants fan, he’s also a San Francisco legend.
Yeah. We should admire Joe's craftsmanship in this stuff.
"They set him up to forever be one of the true sports heroes in town, along with Jim Brown, LeBron James, Bob Feller, Duane Kuiper, and Bernie Kosar."
Joe, is this contract more about what the Dolans are getting from Jose or about what Jose wants for himself and his family? After all, he initiated the extension. He is ALREADY a Cleveland icon. But there will be a day, when he is 50 years old and has 100 million in the bank when he sits with his family and friends, reflects back in his hall of fame career, and says, “That’s the way you do it.” He did this for his own purposes. And being with his Cleveland family for his whole career was one of them.
I see nothing wrong with this extension, in any way. Good for Jose, good for Cleveland, good for his family, good for the game.
I don't care that Kyle Tucker is getting what Willie Mays in his prime would get today, or that some pitchers might get more or whatever. People go from team to team partially because it is public what everyone is getting, and when it is their time, they want more. Also, of you are less than great, the team moves on from you and tries to replace you with someone younger and cheaper (Like any workplace today for that one)
SO he only made $272 million and not more. That is like a guy getting $5.44 million every year from age 16-65, so I think he will be OK.
It is great to see someone play his career with 1 team. It happens so rarely today. Either the team is unhappy with the performance or cost, or the player wants to win the lottery when they are a free agent, but every once in awhile you can just stay where you are happy and comfortable if you want.
To get some idea of what might be ahead, I present Jose Ramirez' closest similarity score comps through age 32, courtesy of BBRef, with some of the numbers they put up from age 33 on, including their age during their last MLB season:
Scott Rolen (933.2) * 533 G, 519 Hits, 55 HR 109 OPS+, age 37
Shawn Green (923.0) 279 G, 277 Hits, 25 HR, 99 OPS+, age 34
Mookie Betts (918.5) N/A (same age)
David Wright (915.4) 39 G, 31 Hits, 7 HR, 111 OPS+, age 34
Aramis Ramírez (912.8) 660 G, 688 Hits, 97 HR, 121 OPS+, age 37
Carlos Beltrán (911.7) * 1024 G, 1020 Hits, 162 HR, 119 OPS+, age 40
Evan Longoria (910.5) 426 G, 342 Hits, 65 HR, 106 OPS+, age 37
Ryan Zimmerman (903.3) 247 G, 182 Hits, 33 HR, 106 OPS+, age 36
Nolan Arenado (899.0) 259 G, 252 Hits, 28 HR, 96 OPS+, age 34, still active
Andre Dawson (894.8) * 1031 G, 1021 Hits, 164 HR, 114 OPS+, age 41
Similarity scores rely only on the counting stats, and I don't think they include steals, or else Scott Rolen might not be so high, since he stole only 118 bases his entire career, while Ramirez will probably cross the 300 mark next season (he has 287 right now).
Unfortunately, almost half of these guys weren't/aren't thirdbasemen, so it's hard to look hopefully at the 1000+ games played by Beltran or the Hawk and fantasize about a productive swan song for Ramirez. Thirdbasemen tend not to age as well as outfielders.
Certainly nobody could reasonably complain about that kind of production in his mid to late 30s. Adding those numbers to his current ones, Ramirez would end up with something like 2,700 Hits, 425 HR, ~1500 Runs & RBI, maybe 65-70 bWAR. That would certainly land him in Cooperstown the first time he becomes eligible. If he can still hit, they'll surely put him at first or DH to keep his bat in the lineup even after he can no longer hack it at the hot corner.
Which is good, because the only "similar" thirdbaseman to play even 600 games after turning 33 was Aramis Ramirez, and even he was done at age 37, two whole years before this contract will end. Rolen played only about 500 more games , Longoria about a hundred less than that, and Zimmerman even less. Wright had a degenerative spinal condition, and Shawn Green chose to retire with the $100M he'd already made rather than move his family from California at age 35, but he could have kept playing if he'd wanted to. Mookie and Arenado are of course incomplete careers at this point, but we can see Arenado's production is already seriously diminished in the last two seasons compared to his prime.
The good news is that there is some precedent for thirdbasemen playing regularly until age 40 or so, albeit not always productively. There are 11 players with at least 900 games after age 33 who played predominantly third base, seven since integration, and five of those (Schmidt, Beltre, Chipper, Boggs and Brooksie) are in Cooperstown. The others are Gary Gaetti and Graig Nettles, who some suggest should be in the Hall himself. (The pre-integration players were Jimmy(s) Dykes and Austin, Lave Cross and Hall of Famer Deacon White, none of which are especially instructive here.)
Ramirez is not especially like any of those, as he steals bases WAY more often than any of them, which might make him more prone to injury going forward, though it has not so far. He's also not especially known for his defense, having never won a Gold Glove, though he has been a finalist several times.
One other way to look at this is that Ramirez is likely to get his 300th HR and 300th Steal in 2026. Only eight players have ever done that: both Bondses, A-Rod, Mays, Dawson, Beltran, Reggie Sanders and Steve Finley. The last of those is a likely PED case (averaged 8 HR/162 games through age 30, 27 HR/162G for the next decade), as are Barry and Rodriguez. Bonds Sr. was the first to ever combine such power and speed, but was done at age 35. Sanders was extremely talented but never had a healthy season after age 26. The other three are in Cooperstown.
Anyway, none of this is to say whether this is a good contract or not. If Ramirez gets hit by a bus or abducted by aliens and we never see him play another game, the Dolans will have gotten more than their money's worth from him. But if he only adds, say, the kinds of numbers that Rolen or Longoria put up after age 32, he may not have such an easy time getting into Cooperstown, since he may finish shy of 2000 hits, and (presumably) without having ever won an MVP. Hopefully not having had to play the first half of his career on astroturf will help assure he does not finish his career as they did. Certainly this contract will cement him as a Cleveland icon, regardless of the actual numbers. Good on them for making sure of that.
As a Tigers fan, I've enjoyed watching Jose Ramirez from across Lake Erie. Third base has long been a revolving door for the Tigers. I don't get mad at players who take the big money, or those who take the home team loyalty discount either. I'm just a fan of long careers with one team. I'm spoiled by Whitaker and Trammell I guess.
I would note that being able to celebrate to two players who retired 30 years ago hardly counts as being spoiled.
Concur from the Heartland (KC). Jose Ramirez is the esteemed foe. We cannot quite love him, because he has killed us too many times, but damn we really, really respect him and I expect he will get a well deserved standing O at the K someday when he is playing his last game there.
I'm sure Gard ownership has done lotsa cheap things in the past, but this isn't one of them, as other BRs have pointed out. Kudos to them!
I'm surprised Cleveland offered him this deal. This is a great offer for Ramirez -- there's no way he'd earn those paychecks hitting free agency at 36. (Nolan Arenado says hello.)
He's been so underpaid thus far, it's nice that he's get some of that back on the backend of his career.
Do they still make those jackets like the one Joe is wearing in the photo? If so, I'd like to buy one for my grandson (and for me!)
Hey, Paul. Tom here. This was taken at Hi Corbett Field in Tuscon in 1982, I believe. I wish I still had the jacket, because I would have passed it to my son. It's long gone but I have this old photo and another with George Vukovich(!).
I think that's BR Tom wearing the jacket.
Jose, Tito, Klubes, The Rock, Biebs-all class acts in Cleveland baseball.
I wonder how much ancillary value there is in being a franchise icon? In other words, the opposite ends of the scale would be a Scott Boras type mercenary player who plays for multiple teams to get every last dollar and Jose. But Jose will have much greater value in advertising, signatures, charity, etc (other opportunities to cash in on his popularity that I can't think of right now) than an equivalent player who hops around chasing a buck. It is obvious that it doesn't equal the 100 million plus that he has forfeited by staying put, but it must be something? Completely irrelevant to that thought, Jose Ramirez has always looked like Pedro Martinez' baby brother to me. Never been able to shake that thought.
What happened to Kathleen’s Korner? Haven’t seen one of those in a while.
Cleveland franchise leaders...
Hits:
1. Nap Lajoie 2047
2. Tris Speaker 1965
...
7. José Ramírez 1668
Doubles:
1. Tris Speaker 486
2. Nap Lajoie 424
3. José Ramírez 398
Home Runs:
1. Jim Thome 337
2. José Ramírez 285
3. Albert Belle 242
Extra-Base Hits:
1. José Ramírez 726
2. Earl Averill 724
3. Tris Speaker 667
Total Bases:
1. Earl Averill 3200
2. José Ramírez 3007
3. Tris Speaker 2886
Stolen Bases:
1. Kenny Lofton 452
2. José Ramírez 287
3. Omar Vizquel 279
Runs:
1. Earl Averill 1154
2. Tris Speaker 1079
3. José Ramírez 1001
RBI:
1. Earl Averill 1084
2. José Ramírez 949
3. Jim Thome 937
Other than Kenny Lofton in stolen bases, José has an excellent chance of eventually passing everyone ahead of him and holding the franchise record in those categories. He is also three good months away from becoming the 9th player in MLB history with 300 home runs and 300 stolen bases, and when he gets there he'll join Willie Mays as the only players to reach those milestones with one team. if he eventually gets to 350 HR and 350 SB, José will be the first player to do that with one team, and join Bobby and Barry Bonds as the only players with so many of each in MLB history.
In addition to a statue at Progressive Field, he should get one at City Hall.
Just want to offer a pat on the back for the effort this must have taken.
Thanks! I am a Guardians fans who has spreadsheet tabs with franchise leaders for all-time, since integration, and my lifetime leaders in different categories for a few years, so I had put in most of the effort a while ago, and was able to just pull everything from there for this.
I created the spreadsheet so that once every couple weeks in the season, I can update José's (and in some instances, Carlos Santana's) totals, and occasionally move them up a spot. The updates bring me a surprising amount of satisfaction. When José broke Earl Averill's franchise record for extra-base hits, I'd been anticipating that moment for weeks, knowing it was coming. Moving his team to the top of that column was one of the highlights of the 2025 season for me!
I do something similar with Sidney Crosby's stats. I assumed I was the only one, haha.
You're my kind of nerd.
He was under contract for 3 more years, becoming a free agent at 36. So if you were his agent you'd have told him not to sign this extension, that he would probably be able to make more than $100M as a 36-year old for his final contract?
You bring up all contracts that favor the owners in retrospect or seemingly real-time. You railed against Kristian Campbell signing before he ever played a game in the bigs and giving up lots of future earnings. Looking smart for Campbell now. These are people's lives not just data points for the union to hold over the owners heads.
Thanks, Joe. This is 100% the exact emotional journey I went on when I heard about the signing. I'm glad he'll be a Guardian for life. I'm happy for Cleveland fans.
Also, something that NEVER gets talked about in this situation is the family stuff. What if his wife and kids really LIKE their life in Cleveland? What if that's worth some amount of money to him? What if it's worth MILLIONS of dollars to him? That's a totally reasonable way for him to feel. He's comfortable enough financially. And if he's happy and his family's happy... that just seems like being a responsible person to do right by your family.
Yeah I'm a little confused here. If Ramirez was under contract through 2028, he would have been a 36-year-old free agent. Would he really be able to earn another $100M+ for the remainder of his career at that point? It seems like this contract increased his eventual career earnings compared to what they might have been if we looked at it last week.
Also, if there is an extended lockout in 2027, and Ramirez wasn't able to get a big contract in 2029, this contract helps recoup some of the potential losses due to the lockout.
It is remarkable the extent to which a great player spending his entire career with a smaller market team has become a luxury. It is like baseball caviar. You can see the intricate hoops both sides had to jump through just to create this situation for Ramírez. It is really to everyone's credit and it creates something good for the player, the fans, and a long-term legacy relationship for the team. I don't think it's going to start any trends, but this is a nice unicorn wearing a Guardians hat and that brings me baseball joy.