Thank you for clarifying which Mike Shannon it was, because the player/announcer Shannon was a teammate or Brock’s for 7 years so it was confusing (and I was too lazy to look up whether or not Shannon had written a memoir or something.)
Mildly related: one of my Big Moments in sports media, along with once being named as a Brilliant Reader by Joe in an earlier incarnation of JoeBlogs and a few others, was when I was mentioned by Bill James in his "The Baseball Book 1991" for going down the rabbit hole (Bill called them "Tracers") to look into a story from the 1990 book about a play at the plate where Cy Morgan supposedly ran away from Ty Cobb instead of trying to tag him. That story also appears to be somewhat exaggerated.
Very interesting that only 6 of the 50 Drysdale hit batters in games in which he also gave up a home run were to a player who hit a home run. That's less than 1 in 8, when there are 9 players in a lineup. On a few of these occasions, probably more than one player in the lineup hit a home run, too, so we would expect a higher ratio than 1 in 9, if I'm thinking about this correctly. This kind of analysis could be expanded to other pitchers, and I think if it was, it would show that players plunked for hitting a home run is really a very rare phenomenon. Two of those six home runs needed to be eliminated anyway because the hit-by-pitch came before the home run, too, as Joe said. I suppose comparing the ratio of HR/HBP occasions to HBP/HR occasions for players is another indication of whether there is home run-spurred drilling. It seems this number should be at parity if drilling is random.
I won’t lie, I grew a little weary of the all-state tournament, especially the “quotes.” But nobody does rabbit holes like you, and that reminds me why I’m here…
50x. Not insignificant. The number alone earns Drysdale the story. Which starts another rabbit chase. How many times did Bob Gibson accomplish same feat?
There’s another name in the story that brought up a memory of a story my Dad would tell me about Wally Moon. When the Dodgers played in the LA coliseum before Dodger stadium opened in 1962, they had a tall net in left field because it was only 250 feet or so down the line. Wally Moon was the talk of the town with his “Moon Shot” home runs over the net in left field. One of those home runs was a catalyst in sending the Dodgers to the World Series in 1959. Thank you, Joe!
Moon is another rabbit hole. He actually didn't hit a ton of HRs, even with the Dodgers. But.... he had extreme HR home/away splits. In 1959 with St Louis, he hit 7 HRs. In his three years at the Coliseum, he hit 19, 13 & 17 HRs. But at home, he hit 14, 9 and 14 HRs. So 37 HRs at home and 13 away. Then the following year with Dodger Stadium opening, he hit 4 HRs total. 2 at home and 2 away. These are some of the more extreme splits I've seen. It definitely revived a decent career that seemed to be fading early when the Cardinals got rid of him.
What... you couldn't find a photo of the much beloved Joe in a Cardinals uniform? I remember Joe Cunningham. He doffed his cap for the National Anthem and lo and behold, we discovered he was bald. Shock, then laughter. We didn't think back then that our heroes could ever be bald. Great storytelling as usual Joe.
In the long run for things like this that don't really matter, the legends are more fun, but the facts are cool, because we enjoy digging into the stats and getting the "real story."...for things that do matter, pandemics, wars, hunger, violence, climate, economy etc.....only facts should prevail, unfortunately, they rarely do...maybe Bill James should work for the CDC or EPA.
I remember the name Duck Stuart- primarily for the 1960 Pirates world series team. I don’t remember Him having such power and being a non-glove man. Loved his nicknames
. Like others have said, we are sorely lacking in nicknames for the players. They add some pizzaz. If we could only get one to stick for Mike Trout- so good, yet so bland. I saw him in a game in Seattle a couple of months ago with a homer in the 10th inning, he made some nice- not great plays, in CF. Struck out a couple of times. Glad I can say I saw him play- I don’t live in a MLB city. But he just doesn’t have any electricity about him. Too bad, because he could/should be a very marketable icon for the game.
I don't think I ever heard of anybody get criticized more than Dick Stuart for their lack of fielding ability. He was the regular First Basemen for the 1960 NL Pennant Winning Pirates, but he didn't hit an impressive amount of Homers.
Stuart definitely had power. 228 HRs in what amounted to 8 full seasons is pretty great. His defensive stats were pretty bad too. He averaged close to -2 WAR per season. When Henry Aaron calls someone Dr. Stoneglove, we should probably listen. He wasn't one to go negative on other players unless it was really something.
First one of your stories I’ve read and I truly enjoyed it. I played golf with Ann Meyers shortly after Mr. Drysdale died in Palm Springs. It was absolutely one of the best afternoons of golf in my life.
Ann Meyers, sister of Dave Myers (an NBA player who starred with the John Wooden UCLA teams) was an early great women's player. I think she was also at UCLA, if I remember right. She's in the basketball HOF. She's an executive in the WNBA and has had a long announcing career.
Any chance this is a Gene Oliver story and not a Drysdale story? Any games Oliver did actually homer and get plunked but by a different pitcher?
Solly was a red ass
Another great story Joe, keep up the good work ⚾️
Thank you for clarifying which Mike Shannon it was, because the player/announcer Shannon was a teammate or Brock’s for 7 years so it was confusing (and I was too lazy to look up whether or not Shannon had written a memoir or something.)
Mildly related: one of my Big Moments in sports media, along with once being named as a Brilliant Reader by Joe in an earlier incarnation of JoeBlogs and a few others, was when I was mentioned by Bill James in his "The Baseball Book 1991" for going down the rabbit hole (Bill called them "Tracers") to look into a story from the 1990 book about a play at the plate where Cy Morgan supposedly ran away from Ty Cobb instead of trying to tag him. That story also appears to be somewhat exaggerated.
Very interesting that only 6 of the 50 Drysdale hit batters in games in which he also gave up a home run were to a player who hit a home run. That's less than 1 in 8, when there are 9 players in a lineup. On a few of these occasions, probably more than one player in the lineup hit a home run, too, so we would expect a higher ratio than 1 in 9, if I'm thinking about this correctly. This kind of analysis could be expanded to other pitchers, and I think if it was, it would show that players plunked for hitting a home run is really a very rare phenomenon. Two of those six home runs needed to be eliminated anyway because the hit-by-pitch came before the home run, too, as Joe said. I suppose comparing the ratio of HR/HBP occasions to HBP/HR occasions for players is another indication of whether there is home run-spurred drilling. It seems this number should be at parity if drilling is random.
I won’t lie, I grew a little weary of the all-state tournament, especially the “quotes.” But nobody does rabbit holes like you, and that reminds me why I’m here…
Great story Joe. Baseball has so much colorful chatter and you're good at relating it. Please keep it up!
I love these stories. Makes me feel like I am in a mystery novel. Thanks very much for all of the fun, Joe.
Joe - you are a national treasure. Thank you for digging into such a useless story and writing about it such that I cannot put it down. Amazing
50x. Not insignificant. The number alone earns Drysdale the story. Which starts another rabbit chase. How many times did Bob Gibson accomplish same feat?
There’s another name in the story that brought up a memory of a story my Dad would tell me about Wally Moon. When the Dodgers played in the LA coliseum before Dodger stadium opened in 1962, they had a tall net in left field because it was only 250 feet or so down the line. Wally Moon was the talk of the town with his “Moon Shot” home runs over the net in left field. One of those home runs was a catalyst in sending the Dodgers to the World Series in 1959. Thank you, Joe!
Moon is another rabbit hole. He actually didn't hit a ton of HRs, even with the Dodgers. But.... he had extreme HR home/away splits. In 1959 with St Louis, he hit 7 HRs. In his three years at the Coliseum, he hit 19, 13 & 17 HRs. But at home, he hit 14, 9 and 14 HRs. So 37 HRs at home and 13 away. Then the following year with Dodger Stadium opening, he hit 4 HRs total. 2 at home and 2 away. These are some of the more extreme splits I've seen. It definitely revived a decent career that seemed to be fading early when the Cardinals got rid of him.
What... you couldn't find a photo of the much beloved Joe in a Cardinals uniform? I remember Joe Cunningham. He doffed his cap for the National Anthem and lo and behold, we discovered he was bald. Shock, then laughter. We didn't think back then that our heroes could ever be bald. Great storytelling as usual Joe.
I remember Joe Cunningham as a First Basemen for the Washington Senators.
In the long run for things like this that don't really matter, the legends are more fun, but the facts are cool, because we enjoy digging into the stats and getting the "real story."...for things that do matter, pandemics, wars, hunger, violence, climate, economy etc.....only facts should prevail, unfortunately, they rarely do...maybe Bill James should work for the CDC or EPA.
I remember the name Duck Stuart- primarily for the 1960 Pirates world series team. I don’t remember Him having such power and being a non-glove man. Loved his nicknames
. Like others have said, we are sorely lacking in nicknames for the players. They add some pizzaz. If we could only get one to stick for Mike Trout- so good, yet so bland. I saw him in a game in Seattle a couple of months ago with a homer in the 10th inning, he made some nice- not great plays, in CF. Struck out a couple of times. Glad I can say I saw him play- I don’t live in a MLB city. But he just doesn’t have any electricity about him. Too bad, because he could/should be a very marketable icon for the game.
I don't think I ever heard of anybody get criticized more than Dick Stuart for their lack of fielding ability. He was the regular First Basemen for the 1960 NL Pennant Winning Pirates, but he didn't hit an impressive amount of Homers.
Stuart definitely had power. 228 HRs in what amounted to 8 full seasons is pretty great. His defensive stats were pretty bad too. He averaged close to -2 WAR per season. When Henry Aaron calls someone Dr. Stoneglove, we should probably listen. He wasn't one to go negative on other players unless it was really something.
First one of your stories I’ve read and I truly enjoyed it. I played golf with Ann Meyers shortly after Mr. Drysdale died in Palm Springs. It was absolutely one of the best afternoons of golf in my life.
Ann Meyers, sister of Dave Myers (an NBA player who starred with the John Wooden UCLA teams) was an early great women's player. I think she was also at UCLA, if I remember right. She's in the basketball HOF. She's an executive in the WNBA and has had a long announcing career.