There isn’t any serious doubt that the greatest power-hitting catcher in baseball history is Josh Gibson. We will never know just how many home runs Gibson would have hit in the major leagues, and we are lesser for that … but it is pretty obvious that he would have set all the home run records for catchers.
I never got the "home runs hit while playing catcher" thing. It is the "official" record and is unique in all of baseball. No one knows how many home runs were hit playing any other position. Only Catchers. They might know the number for a player who played primarily at that position, but it is not parsed to how many games they played there. It is also, for catchers, unique to home runs. No one parses the amount of RBIs hit while playing catcher, or the number of hits. It is only home runs.
As far as I am concerned, Salvy holds the record for catchers. The other stuff is just some crap someone with an agenda made up along the way.
Great article, thanks Joe. Learned way more than I knew about the history of the HR record for catchers (wow, Todd Huntley, forgot all 41 were as a catcher). Truly the most demanding position physically, and also, mentally. Then, go to the post 130- 140 times a year and hit, in sweltering Midwestern heat. Remarkable accomplishment.
Salvy is a blessing to our city and the Royals. I enjoy watching him play. In my opinion, he'll need 5 more 30 home run seasons to get to Cooperstown. His production at the plate just wasn't that stellar early in his career. At the same time, there are only 19 catchers in the HOF. Most of them aren't stellar at the plate. Mike Piazza is an exception to that rule. He hit .308 for his career and 427 home runs.
Of the modern era catchers, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Mike Piazza, Ivan "Pudge" Rodiguez, and Ted Simmons, Salvy seems to be about 5 stellar years away from consideration.
Piazza leads the group with 427 home runs. Simmons only had 248.
Piazza leads the group with a .308 batting average. Carter only batted .262
Rodriguez leads the group with 2,844 hits. Bench only had 2048.
Rodriguez leads with 13 Gold Gloves and Bench had 10. Neither Piazza nor Simmons earned any Gold Gloves.
Salvy, by comparison has a .270 career batting average, 198 home runs, 1152 hits, and has 5 gold gloves. He has also been World Series MVP and won 3 silver slugger awards. In my opinion, he needs another 900 hits, 150 home runs, and he need to improve his batting average 10-15 points. He would then be a sure thing.
One thing each of the other guys listed has that Salvy has in spakes is likeability. Bench, Carter, Fisk, Piazza, Rodriguez, and Simmons were all popular guys. All of them were club house leaders and were good to the press, as far as I can remember.
I agree with just about everything you said about the counting stats he'll need to cement his case for the Hall of Fame except, maybe, raising his batting average -- to me, that just doesn't mean what it used to.
Salvador Perez is an interesting player. a really good one in fact. His 2021 season is remarkable both on its own terms and historically. But let's be real here: it's rather shocking Salvy is having this kind of home run season. He's crushing records for the franchise, the position, and now leading the league in homers too. Good for Salvy.
ps. More than anything in the world, I would love to hear a Podcast episode where you two delightful degenerates draft Favorite Baseball Names (or even Favorite Names With a Boston Accent, which I wrote about: https://makegibbonslaugh.substack.com/p/make-gibbons-laugh-22)
Bill James would berate you for a line like, "Catchers wear down over the long season. How could they not?" without doing the study, a very simple one that compares catchers stats on a per month basis over the course of a season. You could make it more complicated by adjusting for use, to see if stats drop off more for catchers who play more often. Or you might even see that the original statement is false! (Actual study left as an exercise for the student).
Just did a quick look at Piazza and Salvy, both saw their #s decline later in the year. Specifically in the hotter months, as Salvy's #s rebound a bit in Sept/Oct. Super small sample size. But I'm willing to bet Joe dug a little deeper.
I never got the "home runs hit while playing catcher" thing. It is the "official" record and is unique in all of baseball. No one knows how many home runs were hit playing any other position. Only Catchers. They might know the number for a player who played primarily at that position, but it is not parsed to how many games they played there. It is also, for catchers, unique to home runs. No one parses the amount of RBIs hit while playing catcher, or the number of hits. It is only home runs.
As far as I am concerned, Salvy holds the record for catchers. The other stuff is just some crap someone with an agenda made up along the way.
Great article Joe. My two favorite catchers of all time.
Excellent article. Salvy is most deserving of the accolades. KC loves him, more for who he is, as the greatest catcher ever!
Thank you Sir!! Wonderful article.
Great article, thanks Joe. Learned way more than I knew about the history of the HR record for catchers (wow, Todd Huntley, forgot all 41 were as a catcher). Truly the most demanding position physically, and also, mentally. Then, go to the post 130- 140 times a year and hit, in sweltering Midwestern heat. Remarkable accomplishment.
Awesome! I wasn't aware Johnny Bench didn't hit all his HR-s as catcher, so I learned something today as well.
Salvy is a blessing to our city and the Royals. I enjoy watching him play. In my opinion, he'll need 5 more 30 home run seasons to get to Cooperstown. His production at the plate just wasn't that stellar early in his career. At the same time, there are only 19 catchers in the HOF. Most of them aren't stellar at the plate. Mike Piazza is an exception to that rule. He hit .308 for his career and 427 home runs.
Of the modern era catchers, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Mike Piazza, Ivan "Pudge" Rodiguez, and Ted Simmons, Salvy seems to be about 5 stellar years away from consideration.
Piazza leads the group with 427 home runs. Simmons only had 248.
Piazza leads the group with a .308 batting average. Carter only batted .262
Rodriguez leads the group with 2,844 hits. Bench only had 2048.
Rodriguez leads with 13 Gold Gloves and Bench had 10. Neither Piazza nor Simmons earned any Gold Gloves.
Salvy, by comparison has a .270 career batting average, 198 home runs, 1152 hits, and has 5 gold gloves. He has also been World Series MVP and won 3 silver slugger awards. In my opinion, he needs another 900 hits, 150 home runs, and he need to improve his batting average 10-15 points. He would then be a sure thing.
One thing each of the other guys listed has that Salvy has in spakes is likeability. Bench, Carter, Fisk, Piazza, Rodriguez, and Simmons were all popular guys. All of them were club house leaders and were good to the press, as far as I can remember.
I agree with just about everything you said about the counting stats he'll need to cement his case for the Hall of Fame except, maybe, raising his batting average -- to me, that just doesn't mean what it used to.
It's the HOF, not the Hall of WAR, but he's going to have to compile a lot more WAR to get into the HOF. I hope he does it.
Salvador Perez is an interesting player. a really good one in fact. His 2021 season is remarkable both on its own terms and historically. But let's be real here: it's rather shocking Salvy is having this kind of home run season. He's crushing records for the franchise, the position, and now leading the league in homers too. Good for Salvy.
My daughter doesn't really watch baseball but she loves Ted Lasso. I told her that Salvy is the "Dani Rojas" of baseball. :)
Hitting the like button strictly for the David S. Pumpkin reference...well the rest of the article is great but still.
ps. More than anything in the world, I would love to hear a Podcast episode where you two delightful degenerates draft Favorite Baseball Names (or even Favorite Names With a Boston Accent, which I wrote about: https://makegibbonslaugh.substack.com/p/make-gibbons-laugh-22)
An article with Bench without a mention of "The Machine"? Sacrilege!
this is lovely.
-- a (Red) Sox fan who adores Salvy
Bill James would berate you for a line like, "Catchers wear down over the long season. How could they not?" without doing the study, a very simple one that compares catchers stats on a per month basis over the course of a season. You could make it more complicated by adjusting for use, to see if stats drop off more for catchers who play more often. Or you might even see that the original statement is false! (Actual study left as an exercise for the student).
Just did a quick look at Piazza and Salvy, both saw their #s decline later in the year. Specifically in the hotter months, as Salvy's #s rebound a bit in Sept/Oct. Super small sample size. But I'm willing to bet Joe dug a little deeper.
Very nice piece. And yes, I do like it when players of the past show genuine appreciation for players of the present.