If I asked you, “Can you tell me the difference between the way Peyton Manning and Lamar Jackson played quarterback?" I imagine you would laugh for a while.
What I will always remember about Willie is that his knees were almost shot by the time he got to KC. He would hobble back and forth from the huddle to the line....but man, as soon as that ball was hiked, he would maul people just like you described, and then...hobble back to the huddle. It was incredible!
Is it more amazing the Barry Sanders was always on losing teams or that Joe Thomas was? I guess Barry was able to single handedly make Detroit decent, but no more. And usually, despite what the average fan thinks, I still believe that your offensive & defensive lines determine how good your team will be. Blocking & Tackling. Still, Joe Thomas was just one guy. One of 5 offensive linemen on a bad team. You need a stud left tackle, but the line is only going to be as good as it's weakest link. Too bad the Browns couldn't pull it together. It's a bit sad that they finally did, just after he retired.
Most 100 Greatest X lists are 100 celebrations one after the other. While Joe has that, I'm really loving the 'two-fers' as the compare/contrasts really shine a new perspective on BOTH of the players honored on the list.
I’m a Pats fan going back to the mid-70s, and I’ve always had a soft spot for the Browns. I’ve been debating whether to pick up a Browns jerseys … and I’ve been trying to decide between Jim Brown … and Joe Thomas. He deserved better, but, it seemed like the awfulness around him only served to highlight his excellence.
For anyone who would like to keep score, I've created a Google Sheet that has Joe's Football 101 list. It counts entries by teams and positions. Anyone should be able to view it with the following link:
Counts by team and position are included in separate sheets. You can reach them by clicking on the sheet tabs at the bottom of the main window.
Teams can include a primary and secondary team. My preference would be to only include a secondary team if the player was on that team for more than a year. With this scoring, Montana would get included with the Chiefs as a secondary team since he was there for two years. Namath and Unitas would not be counted as a Ram or Charger, respectively, for their token year on each team. For now, I'm using the existing NFL teams. I'll add more teams as needed, although I'll stick by franchise (e.g., the Raiders in Oakland, LA, and Las Vegas will all fall under one team name). CLV will cover both the original and expansion Browns. The Ravens will not inherit prior Browns.
Positions are listed individually, and then rolled up into categories (e.g., offensive line), and rolled up again into offense versus defense. Let me know if it's worth including multiple positions for a player (e.g, should Gale Sayers be listed as a returner as well as a running back?).
I'll eventually add a decade count by the final year of play. It may make more sense to decrement that by a year or two so someone retiring in 1990 or 1991 should be counted more for the 80s than 90s. Obviously player careers often span multiple decades, so I could expand this later if there is demand for it.
I'm open to suggestions, corrections, and feedback. Just post comments in Joe's blog.
Even the day we drafted Joe Thomas, he was overlooked. Because we got Brady Quinn later in the first round and everyone said, "We got the best lineman in the draft but we just got our franchise QB" (snicker, snicker, snicker)....
Two other things about that draft. Joe Thomas didn't go to NY even though he knew he was going to be a top 10 pick. He went fishing.
And Joe Thomas ran a 4.92 40. That's a RIDICULOUS number for a left tackle. For comparison, Tom Brady ran a 5.28, Reggie White ran a 5.26, Trent Williams ran a 4.88. We wasted Joe Thomas but were glad to have him all those years.
This. Everyone I knew - including my office-mate who was from Canton, was screaming for Quinn. I was screaming No! Nononono! It's gotta be Thomas! I knew 2 things: a) no QB we got would be worth a damn without protection, and b) Quinn just wasn't that good. And I was right about both. Joe Thomas absolutely deserved to be on a great team, and the Browns just could not ever get it right. And yet - look at him. He is one of the biggest Browns fans there is, and is tickled pink that his old team is finally good. I love that man!
Nice post. The tragedy of it all is THIS guy deserves to be on THIS team with THIS coach. But, he got to be appreciated by THIS fan base, so I guess it's not all bad.
What I will always remember about Willie is that his knees were almost shot by the time he got to KC. He would hobble back and forth from the huddle to the line....but man, as soon as that ball was hiked, he would maul people just like you described, and then...hobble back to the huddle. It was incredible!
Is it more amazing the Barry Sanders was always on losing teams or that Joe Thomas was? I guess Barry was able to single handedly make Detroit decent, but no more. And usually, despite what the average fan thinks, I still believe that your offensive & defensive lines determine how good your team will be. Blocking & Tackling. Still, Joe Thomas was just one guy. One of 5 offensive linemen on a bad team. You need a stud left tackle, but the line is only going to be as good as it's weakest link. Too bad the Browns couldn't pull it together. It's a bit sad that they finally did, just after he retired.
Most 100 Greatest X lists are 100 celebrations one after the other. While Joe has that, I'm really loving the 'two-fers' as the compare/contrasts really shine a new perspective on BOTH of the players honored on the list.
I’m a Pats fan going back to the mid-70s, and I’ve always had a soft spot for the Browns. I’ve been debating whether to pick up a Browns jerseys … and I’ve been trying to decide between Jim Brown … and Joe Thomas. He deserved better, but, it seemed like the awfulness around him only served to highlight his excellence.
For anyone who would like to keep score, I've created a Google Sheet that has Joe's Football 101 list. It counts entries by teams and positions. Anyone should be able to view it with the following link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19reESfIvV2ROI5rdehKSyU6j7ujt94xoHYUrPaJcDtw/edit?usp=sharing
Counts by team and position are included in separate sheets. You can reach them by clicking on the sheet tabs at the bottom of the main window.
Teams can include a primary and secondary team. My preference would be to only include a secondary team if the player was on that team for more than a year. With this scoring, Montana would get included with the Chiefs as a secondary team since he was there for two years. Namath and Unitas would not be counted as a Ram or Charger, respectively, for their token year on each team. For now, I'm using the existing NFL teams. I'll add more teams as needed, although I'll stick by franchise (e.g., the Raiders in Oakland, LA, and Las Vegas will all fall under one team name). CLV will cover both the original and expansion Browns. The Ravens will not inherit prior Browns.
Positions are listed individually, and then rolled up into categories (e.g., offensive line), and rolled up again into offense versus defense. Let me know if it's worth including multiple positions for a player (e.g, should Gale Sayers be listed as a returner as well as a running back?).
I'll eventually add a decade count by the final year of play. It may make more sense to decrement that by a year or two so someone retiring in 1990 or 1991 should be counted more for the 80s than 90s. Obviously player careers often span multiple decades, so I could expand this later if there is demand for it.
I'm open to suggestions, corrections, and feedback. Just post comments in Joe's blog.
Even the day we drafted Joe Thomas, he was overlooked. Because we got Brady Quinn later in the first round and everyone said, "We got the best lineman in the draft but we just got our franchise QB" (snicker, snicker, snicker)....
Two other things about that draft. Joe Thomas didn't go to NY even though he knew he was going to be a top 10 pick. He went fishing.
And Joe Thomas ran a 4.92 40. That's a RIDICULOUS number for a left tackle. For comparison, Tom Brady ran a 5.28, Reggie White ran a 5.26, Trent Williams ran a 4.88. We wasted Joe Thomas but were glad to have him all those years.
This. Everyone I knew - including my office-mate who was from Canton, was screaming for Quinn. I was screaming No! Nononono! It's gotta be Thomas! I knew 2 things: a) no QB we got would be worth a damn without protection, and b) Quinn just wasn't that good. And I was right about both. Joe Thomas absolutely deserved to be on a great team, and the Browns just could not ever get it right. And yet - look at him. He is one of the biggest Browns fans there is, and is tickled pink that his old team is finally good. I love that man!
Nice post. The tragedy of it all is THIS guy deserves to be on THIS team with THIS coach. But, he got to be appreciated by THIS fan base, so I guess it's not all bad.
Did not the 1948-49 49ers play 12 not 14 games ? NFL went to 14 games in 1961 I believe; terrific profiles thanks