Here’s something funny about managing a baseball game: You could do the absolute right thing from a percentage and logic standpoint and have it blow up in your face.
My Dad was opposed to intentional walks. He felt that it was like giving up & just admitting that you're not as good as the other team. So, not only was it wrong to do strategically, but he thought it was extra bad psychologically. Our job as pitchers was to get hitters out. Getting them out was very good psychologically. It's not a hard concept. Joe Madden is out of his f'ing mind.
Horton and Martin battled all year and Willie might have taken this as a challenge. In 72 Freehan was injured and Sims and Tom Haller covered well for him
He's absolutely right. They're human beings. It's a very logical explanation. The problem with it is that you better be a great reader of people to buck the long run numbers that are so far not in your favor, and not many of us are. Is Maddon special in this regard? Maybe. It's not like he doesn't have a track record.
"In some ways, I must admit that I admire the sort of manager Joe Maddon has become, because nobody else in baseball is allowed to be that kind of manager anymore. He’s right out of 1977, when a manager’s word was gospel and even the dumbest explanations were pretty much accepted ..."
Except his explanation wasn't accepted. Witness Trout's face, the usual Twitter noise, the postgame questions, this article. I mean, I wouldn't do it, and if he were the mgr. of my team I'd be pissed. But there is something crazy-fun in it. And now Corey Seager can be added to the pantheon.
So, they had video on a story I was reading about this today, and it showed the intentional walk on a video in the background. The pitchers was actually throwing the ball. They still can just point, right? What was the purpose of that?
Of course Maddon didn’t walk Seager to fire up the team. He did it because he didn’t trust Warren not to give up a grand slam. He couldn’t replace Warren; Warren had only pitched to one batter. So faced with the situation of having a terrible matchup - which is, to be clear, entirely Maddon’s fault - he chose what he viewed as the lesser of evils at that moment.
Was it the right choice? I have no idea. I certainly wouldn’t say it worked out *well.* But it could have been worse.
In any case, Maddon couldn’t very well go into the postgame press conference and say “yeah, I don’t trust him in that situation.” THAT would get a response from the team. Why Maddon wouldn’t trust him there isn’t clear to me. But in any case, having done what he did, the only way out of the box was to make up an absurd reason, the more absurd the better, to take the focus off what actually happened.
It strikes me as terrible managing, but what he said to the press was probably the best part about it.
I would argue that in every way possible, Maddon said exactly that. “Yeah, I don’t trust him (yes, the guy I JUST put in the game) NOT to give up a grand slam or bases clearing double here” plus - I can’t take him out.
The lineup that Kaline pulled out of a hat included Tony Taylor--who played forever (well 19 years), beginning with the Cubs and ending with the Phillies (for whom he played either all or part of 15 seasons).
Taylor is one of the first baseball players I remember seeing on TV--when he played for the Cubs (in 1958-1960, until traded in 1960 to the Phils)--and he always used his thumb to simulate a crucifix on the knob of the bat before getting into the batter's box. As a Catholic boy, I figured I should root for him--which I did until he retired after the 1976 season.
I've long thought that baseball has different social types, epitomized by particular players. Tony Taylor seemed to represent one of those types--an unremarkable survivor who managed to play in 2031 games (1823 as a starter), 1498 of them at second base. He had 8501 plate appearances and 2007 hits--compiling a decidedly mediocre .261/.321/.352 batting line.
Joe P. could write ten volumes of Baseball 101--each with different players, and I doubt that Tony Taylor would appear in any of them. But, while we all love to see athletes perform the art of excellence in their various sports, Tony Taylor remains one of my favorites who (aside from "carving a crucifix" on the thumb of his bat), exemplified "the art of getting by," which is no small trick!
Always kinda liked Maddon, but looking back it makes you wonder. How much of his success with Tampa was the Rays org and how much was Maddon?
Same thing in Chicago, he won a title but with a great squad that Theo put together.
Now in Anaheim (or whatever their actual name is) he hasn’t had much success, but of course he hasn’t had as great a team outside of Shohei, Trout, who has missed time the last few years, and a dinged up Rendon.
Of course, I think I saw a stat that Teams that have walked a batter with the bases loaded are 7-0 since 1900, so maybe the joke is on us.
I actually like the move you reference with Martin. It’s something that will draw press and help take the pressure off the team. Had Maddon been trying to do the same with his intentional walk, I could see that as well, though giving up a run for something like this seems desperate. If they lost, it would all be on Maddon and everyone knew that. Unfortunately, Maddon’s main reason for doing this seemed to be to avoid giving up the grand slam… which is a decidedly bad reason to make a decision like this.
In Seager's best year, he hit 26 HRs. He added 40 doubles, and 5 triples. 10% if his plate appearances that year ended up with an extra base hit, which is what Maddon was trying to avoid. And that was Seager's BEST year. It's a mind numbingly dumb decision.
Is Maddon's contract with the Angels almost up? I'm not saying he's got an eye on the next job, but I wouldn't exactly put it past him to try and burnish his eccentric genius bona fides to distract from how he hasn't exactly been able to do much better with a couple of genuine superstars than his predecessor. And I don't think anybody can deny that Maddon really likes it when the game story is about how clever he is.
I think it was Earl Weaver that Ron Luciano talks about in The Umpire Strikes Back, but he asked Luciano to throw him out of the game to get his team fired up.
I'm assuming Maddon told that story AFTER the game. If so, I call bullshit. "I did it to fire up my team, see it worked" he says, after the Angels score 7 runs to win. If they get shut out the rest of the game, do you think he goes with that story?
A technical foul is worth one point in the NBA, IF the opposing player makes the foul shot. That's less than 1% of the points a team is likely to score in a game. 1 run in baseball is significantly more valuable than a point in basketball.
I used to think Maddon was full of it, when he managed the Rays. The older and more full of myself I become, I enjoy him more for what he is. Baseball needs to be played now and then, like life.
My Dad was opposed to intentional walks. He felt that it was like giving up & just admitting that you're not as good as the other team. So, not only was it wrong to do strategically, but he thought it was extra bad psychologically. Our job as pitchers was to get hitters out. Getting them out was very good psychologically. It's not a hard concept. Joe Madden is out of his f'ing mind.
That's a great and intersting read !
Horton and Martin battled all year and Willie might have taken this as a challenge. In 72 Freehan was injured and Sims and Tom Haller covered well for him
He's absolutely right. They're human beings. It's a very logical explanation. The problem with it is that you better be a great reader of people to buck the long run numbers that are so far not in your favor, and not many of us are. Is Maddon special in this regard? Maybe. It's not like he doesn't have a track record.
"In some ways, I must admit that I admire the sort of manager Joe Maddon has become, because nobody else in baseball is allowed to be that kind of manager anymore. He’s right out of 1977, when a manager’s word was gospel and even the dumbest explanations were pretty much accepted ..."
Except his explanation wasn't accepted. Witness Trout's face, the usual Twitter noise, the postgame questions, this article. I mean, I wouldn't do it, and if he were the mgr. of my team I'd be pissed. But there is something crazy-fun in it. And now Corey Seager can be added to the pantheon.
So, they had video on a story I was reading about this today, and it showed the intentional walk on a video in the background. The pitchers was actually throwing the ball. They still can just point, right? What was the purpose of that?
Of course Maddon didn’t walk Seager to fire up the team. He did it because he didn’t trust Warren not to give up a grand slam. He couldn’t replace Warren; Warren had only pitched to one batter. So faced with the situation of having a terrible matchup - which is, to be clear, entirely Maddon’s fault - he chose what he viewed as the lesser of evils at that moment.
Was it the right choice? I have no idea. I certainly wouldn’t say it worked out *well.* But it could have been worse.
In any case, Maddon couldn’t very well go into the postgame press conference and say “yeah, I don’t trust him in that situation.” THAT would get a response from the team. Why Maddon wouldn’t trust him there isn’t clear to me. But in any case, having done what he did, the only way out of the box was to make up an absurd reason, the more absurd the better, to take the focus off what actually happened.
It strikes me as terrible managing, but what he said to the press was probably the best part about it.
I would argue that in every way possible, Maddon said exactly that. “Yeah, I don’t trust him (yes, the guy I JUST put in the game) NOT to give up a grand slam or bases clearing double here” plus - I can’t take him out.
The lineup that Kaline pulled out of a hat included Tony Taylor--who played forever (well 19 years), beginning with the Cubs and ending with the Phillies (for whom he played either all or part of 15 seasons).
Taylor is one of the first baseball players I remember seeing on TV--when he played for the Cubs (in 1958-1960, until traded in 1960 to the Phils)--and he always used his thumb to simulate a crucifix on the knob of the bat before getting into the batter's box. As a Catholic boy, I figured I should root for him--which I did until he retired after the 1976 season.
I've long thought that baseball has different social types, epitomized by particular players. Tony Taylor seemed to represent one of those types--an unremarkable survivor who managed to play in 2031 games (1823 as a starter), 1498 of them at second base. He had 8501 plate appearances and 2007 hits--compiling a decidedly mediocre .261/.321/.352 batting line.
Joe P. could write ten volumes of Baseball 101--each with different players, and I doubt that Tony Taylor would appear in any of them. But, while we all love to see athletes perform the art of excellence in their various sports, Tony Taylor remains one of my favorites who (aside from "carving a crucifix" on the thumb of his bat), exemplified "the art of getting by," which is no small trick!
Always kinda liked Maddon, but looking back it makes you wonder. How much of his success with Tampa was the Rays org and how much was Maddon?
Same thing in Chicago, he won a title but with a great squad that Theo put together.
Now in Anaheim (or whatever their actual name is) he hasn’t had much success, but of course he hasn’t had as great a team outside of Shohei, Trout, who has missed time the last few years, and a dinged up Rendon.
Of course, I think I saw a stat that Teams that have walked a batter with the bases loaded are 7-0 since 1900, so maybe the joke is on us.
I actually like the move you reference with Martin. It’s something that will draw press and help take the pressure off the team. Had Maddon been trying to do the same with his intentional walk, I could see that as well, though giving up a run for something like this seems desperate. If they lost, it would all be on Maddon and everyone knew that. Unfortunately, Maddon’s main reason for doing this seemed to be to avoid giving up the grand slam… which is a decidedly bad reason to make a decision like this.
In Seager's best year, he hit 26 HRs. He added 40 doubles, and 5 triples. 10% if his plate appearances that year ended up with an extra base hit, which is what Maddon was trying to avoid. And that was Seager's BEST year. It's a mind numbingly dumb decision.
Billy Martin's hat is far down on his personal list of dumb actions.
Is Maddon's contract with the Angels almost up? I'm not saying he's got an eye on the next job, but I wouldn't exactly put it past him to try and burnish his eccentric genius bona fides to distract from how he hasn't exactly been able to do much better with a couple of genuine superstars than his predecessor. And I don't think anybody can deny that Maddon really likes it when the game story is about how clever he is.
Pure, clean Posnanski fun. Thank you! I’m sure there are many examples of managers over the years doing stupid stuff to ignite players.
I think it was Earl Weaver that Ron Luciano talks about in The Umpire Strikes Back, but he asked Luciano to throw him out of the game to get his team fired up.
I'm assuming Maddon told that story AFTER the game. If so, I call bullshit. "I did it to fire up my team, see it worked" he says, after the Angels score 7 runs to win. If they get shut out the rest of the game, do you think he goes with that story?
Is this the equivalent of a basketball coach intentionally getting a Technical to fire up his team?
Seems more like deciding not to play defense for a possession and giving up an easy dunk. I’m sure the players would really dig it!
A technical foul is worth one point in the NBA, IF the opposing player makes the foul shot. That's less than 1% of the points a team is likely to score in a game. 1 run in baseball is significantly more valuable than a point in basketball.
I used to think Maddon was full of it, when he managed the Rays. The older and more full of myself I become, I enjoy him more for what he is. Baseball needs to be played now and then, like life.