It seems like a lot of these unwritten baseball rules are going away. Bat flipping for one. Thirty years ago if you hit a game winning homer and flipped your bat, in the next game Jack Morris would have put one in your ear. Good for Kapler, I like him. We need more people like him managing teams.
I learned, when my boys played in High School, that there were teams that were just way better than our team. So, we were going to lose by 40. Many of those teams beat everyone by, at least 40. So when they kept their starters in late in the game, a lot of people got pissy. And I did too the first time it happened. Then I got educated by someone more knowledgeable. These teams HAVE to play their starters late in the game, otherwise they won't be in shape for when they do play teams that are just as tough as them. So, if you don't like getting beat by 40, GET BETTER! Eventually we did get better, and we did beat some of those teams. Then there was nothing to complain about.... except the refs, of course. So, if you're losing 11-2, you should have pitched better, hit better, played defense better, run the bases better and managed the game better. Otherwise, STFU & take your beating like a man.
I hate most of these silly unwritten rules (Oddly enough, there are only two I agree with, which I guess makes me a hypocrite - don't steal when you are up more than 5, and don't bunt for a hit more than halfway through a no hitter.) As for the rest of them, as far as I am concerned at the plate, when your team is up or down by a lot, you can do anything you want. On any count. Hit a homer on 3-0 (this was some kind of thing last year) bunt when the defense gives you a clear opening. Or anything else. By the way, they were obviously playing an adjusted defense (The first article I read said shift, Joe said deep, but either way.) to give themselves a better chance. So if you are supposed to just stop playing, why are you adjusting your defense?
Also Eric Hosmer is a whiny little bitch who basically caused this entire thing by throwing such a demonstrative childlike fit.
Khazad, I agree with your stolen base statement except I would couch it more in terms of risk aversion. No need to risk possible injury with a large lead. I realize you probably won't get hurt stealing a base, but you are much more likely to get hurt trying to steal than not steal, and why risk that increased chance at all in a blow out game.
If it's a close game you have to get on however you can, even if the pitcher has a no-no or perfect game, so bunting for a hit, especially if the other team is back or even more especially if they are in a shift shouldn't be controversial.
Hey, I know it doesn't go along with the rest of it. But I was a pitcher in another life, and when you get through the 5th you start to taste it a little. So it might be a little personal. I had a guy lead off the top of the 7th with a bunt, and it was the only hit of the game. (I still ended up having one, but not that day.) It still sticks in my craw. But I get your point. Our game was 6-0 though, and really the only reason to bunt was to break up the no no in a cheap fashion. It is not something I would ever do as a hitter.
As far as stealing when you are up 6 or more, you are just being a jerk. It is not an unwritten rule or anything, I just don't like it.
But in a blowout, you have to come up anyway, you might as well try to hit. You are not going to give yourself up and shouldn't be expected to.
When I pitched through High School, I almost never thought about the unwritten rules & they weren't practiced in the leagues I was in. Once, I complained about something the other team did, to my Dad, who was the manager. He told me that stuff was for little girls & he didn't do that stuff. Basically that ended the discussion. In other words, if you want to win the game, play better than the other team. Nothing else, especially whining, matters.
Thank you for writing about this Joe. This rule is completely antiquated and ridiculous. Also, doesn’t it seem like the unwritten rules generally benefit pitchers? I can’t think of an unwritten rule that clearly benefits position players. I understand it’s brutal to give up that many runs but the team’s pitchers just gotta wear it so to speak cause this is a competitive sport. Hitters could have incentives in their contracts based on HRs or RBIs. Their stats don’t have an asterisk that says *homer off of a position player or *bunt even though the team has a 9-run lead. It makes teams who complain about this look soft. Just play better. Be better.
Agree that the unwritten rules are mostly stupid. I always feel like it works well in basketball – when the losing team pulls all their starters and puts in the subs, the winning team does the same and takes its foot off the gas. Or in football when the losing team starts running the ball up the middle rather than trying to throw to catch up. Seems like a similar thing would work for baseball – if the Padres bring in a position player to pitch, or a way down the line receiver, and remove their best players from the game, then maybe the Giants should take their foot off the gas. But not until then.
Without a clock, the way the game ends is by getting to 27 outs for the losing team. Due to the low leverage, neither side puts in their best relievers which makes the game last longer yet. What would do it is removing more starting hitters, but each team only has a handful and needs to keep a couple back in case of injury so only a couple subs come in. It just has to be played out and I don't think any player should be obligated to play with less effort at any time.
I am a Padres fan and I despise the Giants, more than even the Dodgers. Kapler and Dubon are 100% right. Hosmer is 100% wrong. The game is 9 innings, you play 9 innings. If the defense is playing back and you think you can bunt for a hit, that is exactly what you do, especially if you are an end of the bench guy like Dubon. He wants to keep a major league job. Boosting his batting average is going to help with that.
Let's also not forget the other controversy, in which the Padres are also 100% wrong. Apparently Mike Schildt (3B coach) yelled at the Giants' 1B coach (who was ejected later in the game) for, from what I can seem is no reason.
Thirdly, there is the debut of a female on field coach. This should be the biggest story. Instead, it is in, at best, 2nd place here in the Bay Area, and possibly 3rd place with the Dubon thing.
All the rules when one team is way up or way down, are ridiculous. Unless one team has a distinct resources advantage, a high school with twice as many kids as the opponent, or a FCS team playing a Power 5 in football, none of these "rules" should ever come into play. After reading about the Padres collapse last year it was not hard to dislike them. This just adds to it.
I can tell you from experience that in High School, the unwritten rules didn't exist. And they shouldn't. Nobody has "more resources". They might have much better players that season, but it's not a permanent thing as many teams have elevated to powerhouse status from time to time. Therein lies that real message. If you don't like your ass getting kicked, get better. My sons were on both ends of that deal, and it's obviously much more fun to be on the side that kicks ass. And they had to work hard to be on that side of things.
If the Padres really believe this, their pitchers should have been throwing nothing but 92 mph fastballs once they were so far behind. If one side has to give up using all their advantages, so does the other.
But that's not why I commented - those uniforms! Are they ballplayers, or will they be rolling out the tarp after the game?
The 2001 Mariners won 116 games but also lost a game to Cleveland they led 14-2. Melvin and Williams and Hosmer can stick their “rule” where the sun don’t shine.
If I knew beforehand that a present day Major League Baseball player would be successfully bunting for a single, I’d refinance my house and buy tickets for the whole family to see it.
It seems like a lot of these unwritten baseball rules are going away. Bat flipping for one. Thirty years ago if you hit a game winning homer and flipped your bat, in the next game Jack Morris would have put one in your ear. Good for Kapler, I like him. We need more people like him managing teams.
I learned, when my boys played in High School, that there were teams that were just way better than our team. So, we were going to lose by 40. Many of those teams beat everyone by, at least 40. So when they kept their starters in late in the game, a lot of people got pissy. And I did too the first time it happened. Then I got educated by someone more knowledgeable. These teams HAVE to play their starters late in the game, otherwise they won't be in shape for when they do play teams that are just as tough as them. So, if you don't like getting beat by 40, GET BETTER! Eventually we did get better, and we did beat some of those teams. Then there was nothing to complain about.... except the refs, of course. So, if you're losing 11-2, you should have pitched better, hit better, played defense better, run the bases better and managed the game better. Otherwise, STFU & take your beating like a man.
I hate most of these silly unwritten rules (Oddly enough, there are only two I agree with, which I guess makes me a hypocrite - don't steal when you are up more than 5, and don't bunt for a hit more than halfway through a no hitter.) As for the rest of them, as far as I am concerned at the plate, when your team is up or down by a lot, you can do anything you want. On any count. Hit a homer on 3-0 (this was some kind of thing last year) bunt when the defense gives you a clear opening. Or anything else. By the way, they were obviously playing an adjusted defense (The first article I read said shift, Joe said deep, but either way.) to give themselves a better chance. So if you are supposed to just stop playing, why are you adjusting your defense?
Also Eric Hosmer is a whiny little bitch who basically caused this entire thing by throwing such a demonstrative childlike fit.
Khazad, I agree with your stolen base statement except I would couch it more in terms of risk aversion. No need to risk possible injury with a large lead. I realize you probably won't get hurt stealing a base, but you are much more likely to get hurt trying to steal than not steal, and why risk that increased chance at all in a blow out game.
If it's a close game you have to get on however you can, even if the pitcher has a no-no or perfect game, so bunting for a hit, especially if the other team is back or even more especially if they are in a shift shouldn't be controversial.
"Don't bunt for a hit more than halfway through a no hitter."
What if the score is 1-0? 2-0? 3-0? Should the team being no-hit stop trying to get men on base to score runs and win the game?
Different question: What if the infield defense lays WAY back at that point, since they know you're not "supposed" to bunt?
Hey, I know it doesn't go along with the rest of it. But I was a pitcher in another life, and when you get through the 5th you start to taste it a little. So it might be a little personal. I had a guy lead off the top of the 7th with a bunt, and it was the only hit of the game. (I still ended up having one, but not that day.) It still sticks in my craw. But I get your point. Our game was 6-0 though, and really the only reason to bunt was to break up the no no in a cheap fashion. It is not something I would ever do as a hitter.
As far as stealing when you are up 6 or more, you are just being a jerk. It is not an unwritten rule or anything, I just don't like it.
But in a blowout, you have to come up anyway, you might as well try to hit. You are not going to give yourself up and shouldn't be expected to.
When I pitched through High School, I almost never thought about the unwritten rules & they weren't practiced in the leagues I was in. Once, I complained about something the other team did, to my Dad, who was the manager. He told me that stuff was for little girls & he didn't do that stuff. Basically that ended the discussion. In other words, if you want to win the game, play better than the other team. Nothing else, especially whining, matters.
Thank you for writing about this Joe. This rule is completely antiquated and ridiculous. Also, doesn’t it seem like the unwritten rules generally benefit pitchers? I can’t think of an unwritten rule that clearly benefits position players. I understand it’s brutal to give up that many runs but the team’s pitchers just gotta wear it so to speak cause this is a competitive sport. Hitters could have incentives in their contracts based on HRs or RBIs. Their stats don’t have an asterisk that says *homer off of a position player or *bunt even though the team has a 9-run lead. It makes teams who complain about this look soft. Just play better. Be better.
Chrysanthemum’s eh?
Did not know
In the 6th inning? Ridiculous
Amen Joe!
Amen!!
Agree that the unwritten rules are mostly stupid. I always feel like it works well in basketball – when the losing team pulls all their starters and puts in the subs, the winning team does the same and takes its foot off the gas. Or in football when the losing team starts running the ball up the middle rather than trying to throw to catch up. Seems like a similar thing would work for baseball – if the Padres bring in a position player to pitch, or a way down the line receiver, and remove their best players from the game, then maybe the Giants should take their foot off the gas. But not until then.
Without a clock, the way the game ends is by getting to 27 outs for the losing team. Due to the low leverage, neither side puts in their best relievers which makes the game last longer yet. What would do it is removing more starting hitters, but each team only has a handful and needs to keep a couple back in case of injury so only a couple subs come in. It just has to be played out and I don't think any player should be obligated to play with less effort at any time.
Friend speaks my mind. Thank you
I am a Padres fan and I despise the Giants, more than even the Dodgers. Kapler and Dubon are 100% right. Hosmer is 100% wrong. The game is 9 innings, you play 9 innings. If the defense is playing back and you think you can bunt for a hit, that is exactly what you do, especially if you are an end of the bench guy like Dubon. He wants to keep a major league job. Boosting his batting average is going to help with that.
Let's also not forget the other controversy, in which the Padres are also 100% wrong. Apparently Mike Schildt (3B coach) yelled at the Giants' 1B coach (who was ejected later in the game) for, from what I can seem is no reason.
Thirdly, there is the debut of a female on field coach. This should be the biggest story. Instead, it is in, at best, 2nd place here in the Bay Area, and possibly 3rd place with the Dubon thing.
This game had it all...
All the rules when one team is way up or way down, are ridiculous. Unless one team has a distinct resources advantage, a high school with twice as many kids as the opponent, or a FCS team playing a Power 5 in football, none of these "rules" should ever come into play. After reading about the Padres collapse last year it was not hard to dislike them. This just adds to it.
I can tell you from experience that in High School, the unwritten rules didn't exist. And they shouldn't. Nobody has "more resources". They might have much better players that season, but it's not a permanent thing as many teams have elevated to powerhouse status from time to time. Therein lies that real message. If you don't like your ass getting kicked, get better. My sons were on both ends of that deal, and it's obviously much more fun to be on the side that kicks ass. And they had to work hard to be on that side of things.
Bravo
If the Padres really believe this, their pitchers should have been throwing nothing but 92 mph fastballs once they were so far behind. If one side has to give up using all their advantages, so does the other.
But that's not why I commented - those uniforms! Are they ballplayers, or will they be rolling out the tarp after the game?
Those uniforms are terrible. The Giants have a bunch of other uniforms which look good. Why they wear these turds is beyond me.
Nike, that's why. Tail wagging dog and all that stuff.
Reminds me of the expansion era Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The 2001 Mariners won 116 games but also lost a game to Cleveland they led 14-2. Melvin and Williams and Hosmer can stick their “rule” where the sun don’t shine.
Remember it well! In the end it cost them the all time record !
If I knew beforehand that a present day Major League Baseball player would be successfully bunting for a single, I’d refinance my house and buy tickets for the whole family to see it.