I really miss the Big 8! I understand what has happened and change is good, bla, bla. But, the rivalries and upsets in the Big 8 were awesome. Basketball was way underrated, too. I went to Nebraska in the late ‘80s. Football was king, of course, but I enjoyed basketball season just as much. We went to the NIT all four years I was there, but we did beat #1 Kansas with Danny Manning and #1 Mizzou with Steve Stipanovich while I was there. Basketball games at the Bob were a lot of fun, especially chanting “sit down Norm” constantly against Missouri.
When I read this the next day in The Star I thought, at the time, there is no better way to encapsulate this game than what I just read. Reading this again just solidifies my belief. Thank you Joe for putting the correct words in the correct order.
I can't imagine going for an extended period without a story by Joe (How's that for exaggeration?). I don't remember this game, but I do remember the triple overtime game between Norm and Lou. Another great rivalry that had it's heyday during those coaches' tenure. Here's couple of names for you....Missosuri's Tyus Edney, and the Illilni's Andy Kaufman. Maybe Illinois/Missouri is at least second best in the annals of midwest rivalries.
A little story about Jason Sutherland, who was mentioned in the story, who was a tough little point guard who hit about 85% of his free throws and left it all on the floor every game.
The Final Four has kind of a lottery for tickets every year, and I got tickets to see the one in St. Louis in 2005. It was a fun weekend full of events and my friend and I went to see a Mizzou vs. Illinois alumni game. There were alot of Illinois fans there, as they were in the final four. The game was fun and interesting, with some guys looking a little out of shape and roly poly, and others looking good. Sutherland looked like he could definitely still play, in great shape and still showing skills.
Partway through the game, an Illinois player was kind of playing dirty and drawing some ire. The Illini fans we were sitting with explained that he was kind of always that way in college almost like an enforcer in hockey. If he wasn't on your team, you hated him. (Can't remember the name). But it was an alumni game and he seemed a bit over the top, and it seemed someone might get hurt. Then Sutherland came back in, with that guy guarding him. He brought the ball down the floor, and after a couple of in his prime type fakes and changes of direction had the guy off balance and leaning down while moving backwards. Then Jason went directly forward, putting his shoulder into the guy's chin and drawing a foul. The guy took a seat after that, and the game went much smoother.
I have seen some of the other rivalries, and despite more national publicity, none had quite the emotion of MU-KU. I definitely miss rivalries with all the conferences changing. It is all about the money, and I understand that, but it was the emotion that made it fun. Yes, they are playing again, but it doesn't, and never will, have that same feel. It would be kind of like an old timers game between the 70's Royals and Yankees (I'm from KC, pick your own rivalry, it works the same.) It is cute and all, but it is not the same.
The kids don't have the awareness, the fans don't get as worked up, it is an early season non conference game with the two teams having different skill levels.
Skill level never mattered then, like in that 1997 game (one of the best and most emotional games I have seen) when a Missouri team that ended with a losing record beat the #1 team in the country. Some of that was Norm Stewart, who always traveled the day of the game so they wouldn't have to sleep in Kansas. Norm was 33-40 against one of the historically great programs. He rarely had the best talent, but his teams played with passion and were always fun to watch.
Well I’ll suggest that the Indians/Purdue rivalry is as good as there has been in college basketball. They’ve played over 200 times almost all in convergence games. I think they played in tournament once? And the rivalry has gone up and down in terms of competitiveness over the years. And back in my heyday when Bob Knight and Gene Keady were coaching it was as intense as possible. Both teams were always good, games were almost always close and well played. I can’t imagine any rivalry being better or more intense. But then I’m prejudiced.
Thanks for the story Joe. I did not see the game but can imagine how exciting it must have been,,
I think the best college game I ever saw in terms of skill by both teams, a close tense game, and an important game was the 1979 game between Indians State and Arkansas. It was not a rivalry game- I doubt if they’ve ever played each one other time. It was an important game in that the winner would advance to the final 4. I had no strong rooting interest in the game. I’m from Indians but have no connection to Indiana State, although I was rooting for them, but not intensely.
ISU was led by Larry Bird. Arkansas by the 3 M’s, one of whom was Sidney Moncrief who played several years in the NBA. As this game was unfolding I remember thinking how well it was being played by both teams. And when it was over I thought it was the best played game in college I ever saw. ISU wion a close one. I felt privileged to have seen it on TV. And most people never saw it, very few appreciated it.
Joe: thank you for writing about this rivalry! I was a student at Mizzou from 1994-1998. For that ‘97 game, did it snow? I have a strong memory of walking from my off campus apartment with my friends to the Hearnes Center and it started snowing. That game was electric and I don’t know if I’ll capture that exhilaration again.
I grew up in Topeka and am a lifelong K-State fan and alum. I never realized KU - MU was a rivalry until it wasn't. I've lived on Tobacco Road for over 40 years and nothing tops the ACC. Duke - UNC is much more than a made for ESPN rivalry. UNC - State is not far behind even though it doesn't receive the national recognition.
Kind of ironic that Scot Pollard pumped up the crowd shouting "this goes back to bloodshed." I just checked - Pollard went to high school in San Diego ;-)
Saw probably ever Missouri-Kansas basketball game since 1969..the 1997 game in Columbia was just as you described it . I could feel the tension coming through the television set as I watched it in Raytown. I saw the 2012 game in a restaurant north of the river that no longer exists with my late fiance who passed away in 2017. Everytime I drive past the place that memory returns. Thankfully they have started playing each other again.
The girl i was dating at the time could not understand my morose attitude that evening. When she found out it was over a basketball game she told me she couldn’t believe how childish I was. We broke up that evening
I really miss the Big 8! I understand what has happened and change is good, bla, bla. But, the rivalries and upsets in the Big 8 were awesome. Basketball was way underrated, too. I went to Nebraska in the late ‘80s. Football was king, of course, but I enjoyed basketball season just as much. We went to the NIT all four years I was there, but we did beat #1 Kansas with Danny Manning and #1 Mizzou with Steve Stipanovich while I was there. Basketball games at the Bob were a lot of fun, especially chanting “sit down Norm” constantly against Missouri.
I'm still confused why Missouri went SEC and Nebraska B10.
It's f'd the whole reason college sports thumped
Apparently Alabama shares its money better than Texas.
When I read this the next day in The Star I thought, at the time, there is no better way to encapsulate this game than what I just read. Reading this again just solidifies my belief. Thank you Joe for putting the correct words in the correct order.
I can't imagine going for an extended period without a story by Joe (How's that for exaggeration?). I don't remember this game, but I do remember the triple overtime game between Norm and Lou. Another great rivalry that had it's heyday during those coaches' tenure. Here's couple of names for you....Missosuri's Tyus Edney, and the Illilni's Andy Kaufman. Maybe Illinois/Missouri is at least second best in the annals of midwest rivalries.
A little story about Jason Sutherland, who was mentioned in the story, who was a tough little point guard who hit about 85% of his free throws and left it all on the floor every game.
The Final Four has kind of a lottery for tickets every year, and I got tickets to see the one in St. Louis in 2005. It was a fun weekend full of events and my friend and I went to see a Mizzou vs. Illinois alumni game. There were alot of Illinois fans there, as they were in the final four. The game was fun and interesting, with some guys looking a little out of shape and roly poly, and others looking good. Sutherland looked like he could definitely still play, in great shape and still showing skills.
Partway through the game, an Illinois player was kind of playing dirty and drawing some ire. The Illini fans we were sitting with explained that he was kind of always that way in college almost like an enforcer in hockey. If he wasn't on your team, you hated him. (Can't remember the name). But it was an alumni game and he seemed a bit over the top, and it seemed someone might get hurt. Then Sutherland came back in, with that guy guarding him. He brought the ball down the floor, and after a couple of in his prime type fakes and changes of direction had the guy off balance and leaning down while moving backwards. Then Jason went directly forward, putting his shoulder into the guy's chin and drawing a foul. The guy took a seat after that, and the game went much smoother.
I have seen some of the other rivalries, and despite more national publicity, none had quite the emotion of MU-KU. I definitely miss rivalries with all the conferences changing. It is all about the money, and I understand that, but it was the emotion that made it fun. Yes, they are playing again, but it doesn't, and never will, have that same feel. It would be kind of like an old timers game between the 70's Royals and Yankees (I'm from KC, pick your own rivalry, it works the same.) It is cute and all, but it is not the same.
The kids don't have the awareness, the fans don't get as worked up, it is an early season non conference game with the two teams having different skill levels.
Skill level never mattered then, like in that 1997 game (one of the best and most emotional games I have seen) when a Missouri team that ended with a losing record beat the #1 team in the country. Some of that was Norm Stewart, who always traveled the day of the game so they wouldn't have to sleep in Kansas. Norm was 33-40 against one of the historically great programs. He rarely had the best talent, but his teams played with passion and were always fun to watch.
Well I’ll suggest that the Indians/Purdue rivalry is as good as there has been in college basketball. They’ve played over 200 times almost all in convergence games. I think they played in tournament once? And the rivalry has gone up and down in terms of competitiveness over the years. And back in my heyday when Bob Knight and Gene Keady were coaching it was as intense as possible. Both teams were always good, games were almost always close and well played. I can’t imagine any rivalry being better or more intense. But then I’m prejudiced.
Thanks for the story Joe. I did not see the game but can imagine how exciting it must have been,,
I think the best college game I ever saw in terms of skill by both teams, a close tense game, and an important game was the 1979 game between Indians State and Arkansas. It was not a rivalry game- I doubt if they’ve ever played each one other time. It was an important game in that the winner would advance to the final 4. I had no strong rooting interest in the game. I’m from Indians but have no connection to Indiana State, although I was rooting for them, but not intensely.
ISU was led by Larry Bird. Arkansas by the 3 M’s, one of whom was Sidney Moncrief who played several years in the NBA. As this game was unfolding I remember thinking how well it was being played by both teams. And when it was over I thought it was the best played game in college I ever saw. ISU wion a close one. I felt privileged to have seen it on TV. And most people never saw it, very few appreciated it.
Joe: thank you for writing about this rivalry! I was a student at Mizzou from 1994-1998. For that ‘97 game, did it snow? I have a strong memory of walking from my off campus apartment with my friends to the Hearnes Center and it started snowing. That game was electric and I don’t know if I’ll capture that exhilaration again.
I grew up in Topeka and am a lifelong K-State fan and alum. I never realized KU - MU was a rivalry until it wasn't. I've lived on Tobacco Road for over 40 years and nothing tops the ACC. Duke - UNC is much more than a made for ESPN rivalry. UNC - State is not far behind even though it doesn't receive the national recognition.
At least Duke and Carolina are still playing in conference games and the hate is real. At least until the ACC breaks up on the shoals of SEC envy.
Coming soon.
The BCS-ification of modern college basketball will kill the regular season interest sooner than later.
Goodbye to all that.
And UNC v State hoops. Yawn.
always love you Joe!
"...the conferences will look like gibberish..."
Tell that to the teams who come in 14th in the Big 10.
Nevermind, they already know.
Case in point, UCLA & USC moving to the BIG10. Why????
$$$$$$$$$
Kind of ironic that Scot Pollard pumped up the crowd shouting "this goes back to bloodshed." I just checked - Pollard went to high school in San Diego ;-)
Saw probably ever Missouri-Kansas basketball game since 1969..the 1997 game in Columbia was just as you described it . I could feel the tension coming through the television set as I watched it in Raytown. I saw the 2012 game in a restaurant north of the river that no longer exists with my late fiance who passed away in 2017. Everytime I drive past the place that memory returns. Thankfully they have started playing each other again.
The girl i was dating at the time could not understand my morose attitude that evening. When she found out it was over a basketball game she told me she couldn’t believe how childish I was. We broke up that evening