perhaps his greatest accomplishment. Won with Kyrie and dragged him back to multiple finals. MJ always had Pippen and couldn't do anything without him. LeBron had the anti-Pippen and forced him to the Finals and a ring.
It’s as though you described my life. You and I are roughly the same age and were raised in the same world (Cleveland’s east side). From the Eastern European accents that everyone I knew spoke with, to the Wiener schnitzel at Balaton to Al spinning pizzas at Geraci’s.
I lived with my family in Las Vegas from 2007-2010. We were shopping for shoes for my 15 year old son. He wanted one of the Lebron models. I tried to talk him out of it. I told him that Lebron was leaving Cleveland. He didn’t believe me. He prevailed and got the shoes.
The morning after the decision, his new shoes, a Lebron jersey and his Nike “Witness” t-shirt were neatly stacked at the bottom of the steps. I put them in a bag for charity. We didn’t discuss it for weeks.
Joe - I’ve been reading your columns for a long time but I’ve somehow never read this one. My guess is that as a native Clevelander who used to fall asleep as a middle schooler to the radio calls of Joe Tait narrating Ricky Davis leading the Cavs to another terrible year, I just couldn’t bring myself to feel these feelings the first time you published this. Thank you for reposting it.
As someone who grew up in Cleveland and moved away for college (though I never returned), I’ve come to appreciate what LeBron was needing at that moment in his life. As someone who doesn’t listen to Cleveland sports radio anymore, I’ve come to view a lot of Cleveland sports discussion as unhealthy at best. As a human and observer of basketball, I came to separate the pain of The Decision with the brilliance of LeBron James - I became a LeBron fan again before he came back. And as someone for whom the Cavs always brought good memories, I have obviously come to forgive everything LeBron ever did the moment he won the championship.
But here you capture the feeling of that time period. The anger that one of our own, someone who should understand us, would purposefully do is wrong in exactly the way it would hurt us the most.
Back in 2016 my wife and I were trying to decide where in the U.S. to go for a summer road trip from Winnipeg. She is a fan of Root candles in Medina, OH which just happens to be located midway between Cleveland and Canton. Woo! Exciting things to do for both of us! I was more than happy to visit the candle store with her!
We stayed in Cleveland within walking distance of Progressive Field so we went to two Indians games. I drove to Canton to visit the Pro Football HOF. We visited the Christmas Story house and, of course, we also went to the Rock and Roll Museum.
Several of my friends asked why we would go to Cleveland but there is plenty to see and do just like in every other city.
Joe-- Reading this piece just now made me realize why I'm still bugged that you've dumped the Browns (and that we've lost the irreplaceable "Cleveland Browns Diary"). Sure you had cause; so did LeBron when he left. Sure, we can (might?) get over it; we "got over" LeBron leaving (but only when he came home). But here's the thing, this Throwback piece explains exactly why some of us are upset. It's not so much the Browns you've quit; you've quit us: Cleveland fans. You know how we are - ask Albert Belle about those boos. I still predict that you'll not find what you're looking for if you choose the Chiefs or the Bills. The aren't who you are. They aren't Cleveland - which is a huge part of who you are. Not sure why else you'd post this Throwback if that wasn't so. But all is not lost. As with LeBron, you can come home again.
My son with tears streaming down his face marched into his room and took down his framed poster of Lebron James immediately after the “taking my talents to South Beach” ESPN presser ended. Never to be hung up, again, he said. He was devastated.
In 2014, I was flying to Northeastern Ohio, on the day Lebron made his return home announcement, and changing flights in Charlotte. My wife and I were grabbing lunch when the news broke on the TV in the restaurant. I immediately called my son and all I could get out was “He is coming home.” Nothing else needed to be said.
You are so right, Joe, unless you are a Clevelander you have no idea what he means to the Land!
I was also driving back to Cleveland to visit my parents when he announced he was coming home. That day was the last time I listened to Cleveland sports talk radio.
I get a 10 year old being upset when James left. I get all Cleveland basketball fans being mad at the immature way James "took his talents to South Beach." But if all is forgiven as soon as James decides to come back to Cleveland, it does make Cleveland fans seem petty. No, it's really not that he was classless and clueless, we just thought we owned him?
I think all sports fanbases (collectively) are petty. It could hardly be otherwise given the amount of importance and emotion we put into other people playing a game.
Cleveland fans were understandably hurt by James' horrible "Decision," but LeBron then delivered the ultimate apology by returning while still in his prime and bringing a championship to the city.
You forgot to mention that Chagrin Blvd., where we live, was called Kinsman for a hundred years or so until “problems” in the western neighborhoods of Road in the 50’s made city fathers in the new town of Shaker Heights rename their Boulevard Chagrin - for marketing reasons. Not a high point in neighborhood relations for Cleveland and environs.
I got a life saving double lung transplant at the Cleveland Clinic in 2004 and it became my adopted city (vs. the gleaming metropolis I actually call home, Syracuse). I was thrilled when LeBron put the team on his back a few years ago and won the championship, and I root for the Guardians unless they’re playing the Yankees (sorry, Joe).
And the “taking my talents to South Beach” press conference was the act of an immature 25 year old, but yeah, it rankled at the time.
I have heard it used many times for taking a dump in a public bathroom, once for a guy quitting a bad job, and once I heard it as "you should take your talents to south beach," to a brash and obnoxious guy at a restaurant who was loud enough to irritate several tables nearby.
The arrogance to have an entire show dedicated to his move to Miami was off the charts. It’s almost like the entire show consisted of slowly tying Cleveland to the stake and surrounding them with kindling and firewood, hosing them down with gasoline all while saying what a tough decision this was, and then setting the fan base on fire at the end while holding a tropical drink with an umbrella in it. I’m not from Cleveland but I don’t know that I could have ever forgiven him if I was a Cavs fan.
In the runup to "The Decision", I was talking to my brother about LeBron and I said, "He's 100% staying in Cleveland. There's no way anyone would be so cruel as to set up a big announcement and then reveal he's leaving."
I have no ties to Cleveland but it seemed to me that given the city’s sports history, the way James left was needlessly twisting the knife and that it’s hard to imagine he wouldn’t have understood that. There would always have been anger from some about him leaving, but to get the casual or non fans that worked up it had to be the insult he added to the injury.
Curious to know how Clevelanders feel about all this now, if his eventual return and championship made amends or if there are still some lingering bad feelings.
I agree with Joe that LeBron is the greatest NBA player of all time. And to me what cemented his legacy was returning was returning to Cleveland and winning a title there. Jordan had his own triumphant return, but I'm not sure there's another arc in all of sports that can compare with LeBron's.
I'd grudgingly lean MJ (I hated those Bulls teams for no particularly good reason when I was a dumb teenager), but I think the case for Lebron is a compelling one. One point I'd put in his favor is that the Bulls only dropped from 57 to 55 wins after MJ's first retirement. Virtually the same Cavs roster minus Lebron went from from 61 with him to 19 without.
I know, of course, it's not as important as postseason glory, the East got to be pretty top-heavy by Lebron's prime, and his teammates were probably heavily demoralized by his departure, but I'm still astonished at how far he dragged those teams. Sure, they didn't win a title, but they hardly had any business competing for one in the first place.
If you said, all things being equal, you'd pick peak Lebron first in an all-time draft based on how he elevated his earlier teammates, I wouldn't argue.
Kobe isn't even the greatest career Laker. That would be Magic. I would put Kareem ahead of him too as a Laker.
I'm not sure there is a worse teammate among the top 10 all-time than Kobe.
I lean Lebron #1, but I don't care for the argument anymore. It's either MJ or LeBron.
Russell and Kareem
Magic
Then some mix of Wilt/Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem/Kobe/Bird. I might even throw Steph Curry in there. Wilt might be the other guy up for bad teammate and stat chaser.
I think a legitimate argument could be made for MJ, LeBron, Wilt, or Russell, depending on what your main criterion are. I think the arguments for Wilt and Russell (absurd stats and 11 rings, respectively) don't hold water when you consider the era they played in, though.
I think the arguments for LeBron and Kareem are basically the same (e.g., sustained excellence to go along with lots of titles and MVPs), but at this point LeBron has pretty convincingly shown he's better, so I don't think an argument for Kareem holds up.
If you prefer peak performance and mythology, then I could see MJ being the pick over LeBron.
I think we will look back at the end of LeBron's career, when it is finally over, and there will be little doubt that he has the greatest career ever. Likely he's the all-time scorer, top 4 in assists and the only Forward or Non-PG in the top 25 or so. Plus he might crack the top 30 with 11,000+ rebounds. Titles on 3 teams in the most competitive era the league has seen.
I probably lean Kareem over Russell and Wilt takes a hit anyway for his more selfish play. I think this is the biggest knock on Kobe as well.
There's a lot of ways to frame LeBron's argument as GOAT, but I think it's pretty compelling that he was the best under-20 player of all time, and he's been the best 37+ player of all time, and in between he had an extremely long run as the best player in the NBA.
Love that stat. I remember when Kawhi made the move to LA and suddenly there was all this talk about him getting a big bump in GOAT status if he could win it in LA and make it 3 teams and 3 Finals MVPs. LeBron then goes and beats him to it.
I also think Legacy on and off the court that Russell, Kareem and LeBron have fare exceeded MJ, but I wouldn't dare put MJ that far back.
I think of it a little differently. I believe LeBron is the most talented player ever, but I am not sure that is the same as "best."
If talent means all the skills necessary to be good at basketball, I am comfortable saying LeBron is the most talented player ever.
But I think of "best" as the will and toughness necessary to single handedly carry a team all the way, LeBron is not that guy. There is no doubt he has that skill (Cleveland, 2016) but in general he is not known for it. Even with his "super team" in Miami, he only won two titles. It is hard to imagine Jordan settling for that (to name the most obvious example).
Would put Kareem and Russell over to the side because of the positions they played and because the game has evolved so significantly. That leaves us with MJ, Kobe, and LeBron.
MJ was the most willful athlete I've ever seen. He, like LeBron and Kobe, had amazing physical talent. What separated MJ was his ability to be the most dominant player, on both ends of the court, for extended periods. Both LeBron and Kobe were capable of great defensive play (LeBron's block of Andre Iguodala) but neither could sustain it like Michael who was a brilliant and relentless defensive player. There was really no way to defend any of them but no-one else had to navigate extreme physical play like Jordan. He was completely fearless and had the best combination of talent, skill, artfulness, determination and outcome.
Thought Kobe was a little smug when he came into the NBA but he quickly developed into a complete player and competitor. He was a great player but just shy of Jordan because of defensive contribution and Jordan's seemingly limitless motor. But he was brilliant, resourceful developed into a leader. Certainly a bit indelicate, but a leader.
LeBron reminds me of Wilt in some ways. Both were incredible physical specimens and both seemed as if they wanted to be accepted as complete basketball players, not just physical marvels. Wilt relied on the fadeaway, rather than taking the ball to the hoop and dominating. LeBron took pride in passing the ball and preferred to play as a savant rather than dominating with physicality. Wilt lacked the ability of Russell to fully optimize the ability of his teammates and LeBron typically preferred the role of catalyst rather that serving as the engine driving the team to victory. That is where he falls a bit short of Kobe and Michael as they insisted on putting on the harness of necessity to win championships.
Obviously the GOAT debate isn't the point of the article, but it's fun to have anyway. I'm curious, what could be the rationale for putting either Kareem or (especially) Kobe ahead of LeBron?
I realize lots of people like Kobe more than LeBron, I was just curious whether there was an argument to me made (i.e., besides "I like him better") for Kobe over LeBron.
As far as "liking" goes, I wonder if many are like me (in which case, it means they don't know me) in that when LeBron broke in and did his first hitch in Cleveland, I liked him but didn't like Kobe for several years. I liked the joy in LeBron's game and felt Kobe disrespected Shaq and was snotty.
As time went by, Lebron revealed himself to think "King" James was literal, but Kobe developed into a wonderful man.
first off, same team entire career... then, his constant competitiveness, his work ethic, his will to win, never taking it easy, never dogging it, even when injured- which LeBron often seems to do, especially nowadays! (i could go on) AND Kobe did some things that neither MJ and LeBron ever did: 81 points in a game, few months before that he outscored an entire team over 3 quarters (sat out the 4th) of course his many game-winners (and of course his last game) we forget that both in his final game AND the 81 point game, the Lakers were down by double digits and Kobe singlehandedly willed them to the lead and victory!!!
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but other than smiling and having a better free throw percentage, there is nothing else on the basketball court that Kobe was better at than LeBron. It is Ok to like him more, but to say he was better is ridiculous.
one's subjective (and objective) opinion is never ridiculous- now, if i'd said anybody but Kobe, MJ, LeBron, Kareem, or Russell was the GOAT, well then i'd be ridiculous! as a lifelong Dubs fan, who became a Lakers fan as well only a decade after moving to LA when they landed a young phenom by the name of Kobe Bean Bryant... getting to watch his entire career, w/highlights or whole games viewed daily, afforded me the opportunity to truly witness his greatness night in and night out; w/LeBron, have really only gotten to see him and his game extensively since 2019... possibly this is how it is- we tend to favor those we've seen more of- but nonetheless, even though sometime this year LeBron will pass Kareem to be the all-time leading scorer, there are certain holes in his game that at times (especially recently) become glaring- to me Kobe is one of 3 GOATS: Kobe, MJ, LeBron, w/my personal edge to Kobe!
LeBron did one thing no one else has - he kept Kyrie Irving in line.
perhaps his greatest accomplishment. Won with Kyrie and dragged him back to multiple finals. MJ always had Pippen and couldn't do anything without him. LeBron had the anti-Pippen and forced him to the Finals and a ring.
Thanks for reposting this, Joe.
It’s as though you described my life. You and I are roughly the same age and were raised in the same world (Cleveland’s east side). From the Eastern European accents that everyone I knew spoke with, to the Wiener schnitzel at Balaton to Al spinning pizzas at Geraci’s.
I lived with my family in Las Vegas from 2007-2010. We were shopping for shoes for my 15 year old son. He wanted one of the Lebron models. I tried to talk him out of it. I told him that Lebron was leaving Cleveland. He didn’t believe me. He prevailed and got the shoes.
The morning after the decision, his new shoes, a Lebron jersey and his Nike “Witness” t-shirt were neatly stacked at the bottom of the steps. I put them in a bag for charity. We didn’t discuss it for weeks.
Thanks
Jim Blaustein
"Hired Mike Holmgren to turn things around." Ha! Funny how little we knew. Hope springs eternal. Thanks for the memories, Joe!
Joe - I’ve been reading your columns for a long time but I’ve somehow never read this one. My guess is that as a native Clevelander who used to fall asleep as a middle schooler to the radio calls of Joe Tait narrating Ricky Davis leading the Cavs to another terrible year, I just couldn’t bring myself to feel these feelings the first time you published this. Thank you for reposting it.
As someone who grew up in Cleveland and moved away for college (though I never returned), I’ve come to appreciate what LeBron was needing at that moment in his life. As someone who doesn’t listen to Cleveland sports radio anymore, I’ve come to view a lot of Cleveland sports discussion as unhealthy at best. As a human and observer of basketball, I came to separate the pain of The Decision with the brilliance of LeBron James - I became a LeBron fan again before he came back. And as someone for whom the Cavs always brought good memories, I have obviously come to forgive everything LeBron ever did the moment he won the championship.
But here you capture the feeling of that time period. The anger that one of our own, someone who should understand us, would purposefully do is wrong in exactly the way it would hurt us the most.
Ahh, Ricky Davis... purposely missing on his own basket to grab a rebound in a misguided attempt to secure a triple double.
Back in 2016 my wife and I were trying to decide where in the U.S. to go for a summer road trip from Winnipeg. She is a fan of Root candles in Medina, OH which just happens to be located midway between Cleveland and Canton. Woo! Exciting things to do for both of us! I was more than happy to visit the candle store with her!
We stayed in Cleveland within walking distance of Progressive Field so we went to two Indians games. I drove to Canton to visit the Pro Football HOF. We visited the Christmas Story house and, of course, we also went to the Rock and Roll Museum.
Several of my friends asked why we would go to Cleveland but there is plenty to see and do just like in every other city.
Joe-- Reading this piece just now made me realize why I'm still bugged that you've dumped the Browns (and that we've lost the irreplaceable "Cleveland Browns Diary"). Sure you had cause; so did LeBron when he left. Sure, we can (might?) get over it; we "got over" LeBron leaving (but only when he came home). But here's the thing, this Throwback piece explains exactly why some of us are upset. It's not so much the Browns you've quit; you've quit us: Cleveland fans. You know how we are - ask Albert Belle about those boos. I still predict that you'll not find what you're looking for if you choose the Chiefs or the Bills. The aren't who you are. They aren't Cleveland - which is a huge part of who you are. Not sure why else you'd post this Throwback if that wasn't so. But all is not lost. As with LeBron, you can come home again.
So well said, Tom. No one else who writes about sports does so as well and as elegantly as Joe does about Cleveland.
My son with tears streaming down his face marched into his room and took down his framed poster of Lebron James immediately after the “taking my talents to South Beach” ESPN presser ended. Never to be hung up, again, he said. He was devastated.
In 2014, I was flying to Northeastern Ohio, on the day Lebron made his return home announcement, and changing flights in Charlotte. My wife and I were grabbing lunch when the news broke on the TV in the restaurant. I immediately called my son and all I could get out was “He is coming home.” Nothing else needed to be said.
You are so right, Joe, unless you are a Clevelander you have no idea what he means to the Land!
I was also driving back to Cleveland to visit my parents when he announced he was coming home. That day was the last time I listened to Cleveland sports talk radio.
I get a 10 year old being upset when James left. I get all Cleveland basketball fans being mad at the immature way James "took his talents to South Beach." But if all is forgiven as soon as James decides to come back to Cleveland, it does make Cleveland fans seem petty. No, it's really not that he was classless and clueless, we just thought we owned him?
I think all sports fanbases (collectively) are petty. It could hardly be otherwise given the amount of importance and emotion we put into other people playing a game.
Cleveland fans were understandably hurt by James' horrible "Decision," but LeBron then delivered the ultimate apology by returning while still in his prime and bringing a championship to the city.
You forgot to mention that Chagrin Blvd., where we live, was called Kinsman for a hundred years or so until “problems” in the western neighborhoods of Road in the 50’s made city fathers in the new town of Shaker Heights rename their Boulevard Chagrin - for marketing reasons. Not a high point in neighborhood relations for Cleveland and environs.
I got a life saving double lung transplant at the Cleveland Clinic in 2004 and it became my adopted city (vs. the gleaming metropolis I actually call home, Syracuse). I was thrilled when LeBron put the team on his back a few years ago and won the championship, and I root for the Guardians unless they’re playing the Yankees (sorry, Joe).
And the “taking my talents to South Beach” press conference was the act of an immature 25 year old, but yeah, it rankled at the time.
I am still disappointed that the phrase “taking my talents to South Beach” didn’t become a euphemism for, you know, something.
For some of us, it did, Chris. For some of us, it did.
I have heard it used many times for taking a dump in a public bathroom, once for a guy quitting a bad job, and once I heard it as "you should take your talents to south beach," to a brash and obnoxious guy at a restaurant who was loud enough to irritate several tables nearby.
The arrogance to have an entire show dedicated to his move to Miami was off the charts. It’s almost like the entire show consisted of slowly tying Cleveland to the stake and surrounding them with kindling and firewood, hosing them down with gasoline all while saying what a tough decision this was, and then setting the fan base on fire at the end while holding a tropical drink with an umbrella in it. I’m not from Cleveland but I don’t know that I could have ever forgiven him if I was a Cavs fan.
In the runup to "The Decision", I was talking to my brother about LeBron and I said, "He's 100% staying in Cleveland. There's no way anyone would be so cruel as to set up a big announcement and then reveal he's leaving."
I have no ties to Cleveland but it seemed to me that given the city’s sports history, the way James left was needlessly twisting the knife and that it’s hard to imagine he wouldn’t have understood that. There would always have been anger from some about him leaving, but to get the casual or non fans that worked up it had to be the insult he added to the injury.
Curious to know how Clevelanders feel about all this now, if his eventual return and championship made amends or if there are still some lingering bad feelings.
He is thought of very highly. Returning was the salve, winning a championship made him the greatest sports hero in Cleveland history.
For what it is worth, he always had a slightly more nuanced reputation in Akron. People were still mad but he kept doing amazing things for the city.
I agree with Joe that LeBron is the greatest NBA player of all time. And to me what cemented his legacy was returning was returning to Cleveland and winning a title there. Jordan had his own triumphant return, but I'm not sure there's another arc in all of sports that can compare with LeBron's.
I'd grudgingly lean MJ (I hated those Bulls teams for no particularly good reason when I was a dumb teenager), but I think the case for Lebron is a compelling one. One point I'd put in his favor is that the Bulls only dropped from 57 to 55 wins after MJ's first retirement. Virtually the same Cavs roster minus Lebron went from from 61 with him to 19 without.
I know, of course, it's not as important as postseason glory, the East got to be pretty top-heavy by Lebron's prime, and his teammates were probably heavily demoralized by his departure, but I'm still astonished at how far he dragged those teams. Sure, they didn't win a title, but they hardly had any business competing for one in the first place.
If you said, all things being equal, you'd pick peak Lebron first in an all-time draft based on how he elevated his earlier teammates, I wouldn't argue.
Kobe isn't even the greatest career Laker. That would be Magic. I would put Kareem ahead of him too as a Laker.
I'm not sure there is a worse teammate among the top 10 all-time than Kobe.
I lean Lebron #1, but I don't care for the argument anymore. It's either MJ or LeBron.
Russell and Kareem
Magic
Then some mix of Wilt/Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem/Kobe/Bird. I might even throw Steph Curry in there. Wilt might be the other guy up for bad teammate and stat chaser.
I think a legitimate argument could be made for MJ, LeBron, Wilt, or Russell, depending on what your main criterion are. I think the arguments for Wilt and Russell (absurd stats and 11 rings, respectively) don't hold water when you consider the era they played in, though.
I think the arguments for LeBron and Kareem are basically the same (e.g., sustained excellence to go along with lots of titles and MVPs), but at this point LeBron has pretty convincingly shown he's better, so I don't think an argument for Kareem holds up.
If you prefer peak performance and mythology, then I could see MJ being the pick over LeBron.
I think we will look back at the end of LeBron's career, when it is finally over, and there will be little doubt that he has the greatest career ever. Likely he's the all-time scorer, top 4 in assists and the only Forward or Non-PG in the top 25 or so. Plus he might crack the top 30 with 11,000+ rebounds. Titles on 3 teams in the most competitive era the league has seen.
I probably lean Kareem over Russell and Wilt takes a hit anyway for his more selfish play. I think this is the biggest knock on Kobe as well.
There's a lot of ways to frame LeBron's argument as GOAT, but I think it's pretty compelling that he was the best under-20 player of all time, and he's been the best 37+ player of all time, and in between he had an extremely long run as the best player in the NBA.
Love that stat. I remember when Kawhi made the move to LA and suddenly there was all this talk about him getting a big bump in GOAT status if he could win it in LA and make it 3 teams and 3 Finals MVPs. LeBron then goes and beats him to it.
I also think Legacy on and off the court that Russell, Kareem and LeBron have fare exceeded MJ, but I wouldn't dare put MJ that far back.
I think of it a little differently. I believe LeBron is the most talented player ever, but I am not sure that is the same as "best."
If talent means all the skills necessary to be good at basketball, I am comfortable saying LeBron is the most talented player ever.
But I think of "best" as the will and toughness necessary to single handedly carry a team all the way, LeBron is not that guy. There is no doubt he has that skill (Cleveland, 2016) but in general he is not known for it. Even with his "super team" in Miami, he only won two titles. It is hard to imagine Jordan settling for that (to name the most obvious example).
Believe that is a really good distinction.
Would put Kareem and Russell over to the side because of the positions they played and because the game has evolved so significantly. That leaves us with MJ, Kobe, and LeBron.
MJ was the most willful athlete I've ever seen. He, like LeBron and Kobe, had amazing physical talent. What separated MJ was his ability to be the most dominant player, on both ends of the court, for extended periods. Both LeBron and Kobe were capable of great defensive play (LeBron's block of Andre Iguodala) but neither could sustain it like Michael who was a brilliant and relentless defensive player. There was really no way to defend any of them but no-one else had to navigate extreme physical play like Jordan. He was completely fearless and had the best combination of talent, skill, artfulness, determination and outcome.
Thought Kobe was a little smug when he came into the NBA but he quickly developed into a complete player and competitor. He was a great player but just shy of Jordan because of defensive contribution and Jordan's seemingly limitless motor. But he was brilliant, resourceful developed into a leader. Certainly a bit indelicate, but a leader.
LeBron reminds me of Wilt in some ways. Both were incredible physical specimens and both seemed as if they wanted to be accepted as complete basketball players, not just physical marvels. Wilt relied on the fadeaway, rather than taking the ball to the hoop and dominating. LeBron took pride in passing the ball and preferred to play as a savant rather than dominating with physicality. Wilt lacked the ability of Russell to fully optimize the ability of his teammates and LeBron typically preferred the role of catalyst rather that serving as the engine driving the team to victory. That is where he falls a bit short of Kobe and Michael as they insisted on putting on the harness of necessity to win championships.
agreed!!! and only 2 of those greats you mentioned actually ONLY played for ONE team in their careers: Russell (w/the hated Celtics) and MY GOAT: Kobe
Wow. Kareem Russell. That would be some kind of baller.
Obviously the GOAT debate isn't the point of the article, but it's fun to have anyway. I'm curious, what could be the rationale for putting either Kareem or (especially) Kobe ahead of LeBron?
i would put BOTH Kareem and Kobe ahead of LeBron- and MJ and Russell too
I realize lots of people like Kobe more than LeBron, I was just curious whether there was an argument to me made (i.e., besides "I like him better") for Kobe over LeBron.
As far as "liking" goes, I wonder if many are like me (in which case, it means they don't know me) in that when LeBron broke in and did his first hitch in Cleveland, I liked him but didn't like Kobe for several years. I liked the joy in LeBron's game and felt Kobe disrespected Shaq and was snotty.
As time went by, Lebron revealed himself to think "King" James was literal, but Kobe developed into a wonderful man.
Yeah, sure. For one thing, amazing how he managed to keep playing despite all those trips to Colorado.
first off, same team entire career... then, his constant competitiveness, his work ethic, his will to win, never taking it easy, never dogging it, even when injured- which LeBron often seems to do, especially nowadays! (i could go on) AND Kobe did some things that neither MJ and LeBron ever did: 81 points in a game, few months before that he outscored an entire team over 3 quarters (sat out the 4th) of course his many game-winners (and of course his last game) we forget that both in his final game AND the 81 point game, the Lakers were down by double digits and Kobe singlehandedly willed them to the lead and victory!!!
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but other than smiling and having a better free throw percentage, there is nothing else on the basketball court that Kobe was better at than LeBron. It is Ok to like him more, but to say he was better is ridiculous.
one's subjective (and objective) opinion is never ridiculous- now, if i'd said anybody but Kobe, MJ, LeBron, Kareem, or Russell was the GOAT, well then i'd be ridiculous! as a lifelong Dubs fan, who became a Lakers fan as well only a decade after moving to LA when they landed a young phenom by the name of Kobe Bean Bryant... getting to watch his entire career, w/highlights or whole games viewed daily, afforded me the opportunity to truly witness his greatness night in and night out; w/LeBron, have really only gotten to see him and his game extensively since 2019... possibly this is how it is- we tend to favor those we've seen more of- but nonetheless, even though sometime this year LeBron will pass Kareem to be the all-time leading scorer, there are certain holes in his game that at times (especially recently) become glaring- to me Kobe is one of 3 GOATS: Kobe, MJ, LeBron, w/my personal edge to Kobe!