We’ve got a couple of amazing special guests helping out today as we look to preview the National League Division Series, we’ve also got some thoughts on Dick Butkus, we’ve got some book stuff, it’s a chock-full Friday Rewind.
Not disagreeing that Atlanta is the “Best Team in Baseball” this year, but I’m surprised at all the hype compared to a good number of recent teams who had even better regular seasons. The Dodgers won 111 games just LAST YEAR, with an even better Pythag record. And the Astros won 106 games and the World Series. Meanwhile, these Braves won 103, and may have slightly overachieved to do it. They’re a fantastic team and worthy of being the best team in baseball. But they didn’t have some sort of all-time season; they won fewer games than Dodger, Astro, Giant, and Red Sox teams from the past half-decade.
I agree with your comment about the team as a whole. However, the Braves tied for most home runs in a season (against a time when home runs were flying out everywhere) and were the first team with a team slugging percentage over .500. Their offense has been memorable, but overall they are far from invincible.
Detroit Lions All-Pro center Ed Flanagan, who played against Butkus for a decade, said that Butkus used to spit on the back of his neck while Flanagan was crouched over the ball.
Coincidently, Ed Flanagan also died earlier this year.
although i've only enjoyed 2 things ever in Arizona- cruising parts of Route 66 before the interstate was completed, and the Grand Canyon- and Phoenix is a horrid place and i vehemntly dislike their pro baseball, basketball AND football teams, i'll be rooting for Serpents against the despised Dodgers; as long as L.A. isn't in the World Series, i'm good...
Jenifer, why is this the first time we’ve heard about your hatred of the Dodgers? 😉 Next Joe will tell us that he’s written a book a new book (no, not The Baseball 100, a newer book)
Like Jim Brown, a large (no pun intended) part of Dick Butkus’s legacy is his enormous size compared to his contemporaries.
He was 6’3” and at least 240 . . . and athletic and fast. All LBs wanna f$#k you up; that’s what the position is predicated upon. But he did it before anyone else.
Jim Brown was the same.
Extend to later times. LT. Megaton. Derick Henry. Huge guys who are great because they’re excellent at what they do. And huge.
The wanting to annihilate the opponent? From talking to football players I’ve met, that’s half, of not 3/4 of the point.
R.I.P. Dick Butkus. He was four school years ahead of me and all I wanted to be was exactly like him. When I played full pad ball at Fort LewisI I wore 51 because of him. We were roughly the same size but he was clearly stronger and faster. I still tried to play in that same relentless style. I kept that number 51 jersey for about 40 years until my wife (who is perfect and way out of my league) inexplicably threw it away without telling me. "It was ratty and disgusting". I remember when Lions receiver Chuck Hughes collapsed and died on the field. Chuck had just run a pass pattern and was returning to the huddle when he collapsed with no one near him. Butkus saw that he was in obvious trouble and signaled to the team doctors to come out to help him. Unfortunately, a photo was printed that seemed to show Butkus standing over Chuck Hughes. You can Google it and please note that the impression is based on a trick perspective. You can actually see that between Butkus and Chuck Hughes, there Is a non-player in dark clothing hurrying to help. Because the game was not on national TV, a lot of people thought Butkus had hit Hughes and killed him. Butkus received quite a few anonymous death threats because of that misperception.
John, I was at the game when Hughes died and it was exactly as you say, Butkus was jumping and gesturing to get someone out to help. However, just before that on the same play, he viscously hit Charlie Sanders, who was running a crossing route, above the neck with a forearm that looked as if would separate his head from his shoulders. That is both sides of Butkus. He also once ran Altie Taylor off the field and into the wall at Wrigley Field , at least fifteen yards out of bounds. No flag was thrown, the referees feared Butkus. May he rest in peace.
Thanks. Appreciate the perspective and the information. Speaking of Charlie Sanders, I seem to recall that Xerox, a product designed to stop leaks, once ran a commercial that included a video of game action where Butkus tackles Sanders, lifts him off his feet with his legs still movie and slams him backward to the ground. I don't recall if either player spoke during the commercial. I also noticed that in the ESPN Sports Center tribute to Butkus, Charlie had kind words for Dick, describing him as totally different off the field. Thanks again for your post.
For Olson v. Freeman, I'll take Freddie over Matt in MVP and Morgan over Elizabeth in acting MVP. Obviously I'd rather have Elizabeth in my locker room than Morgan, no offense Red.
Wow. Ellen Adair absolutely should write a baseball newsletter - ok, maybe a Phillies newsletter with timely reviews of every opponent, and totally objective of course. I’ve been watching her victory dances and her hoisting the love for Aaron Nola poster for a long time, but it’s time her writing is recognised as par with the joyful dancing and postering.
add: Ellen needs to start writing, but Molly Knight is a writer that anyone who loves baseball should be reading - engaging (and delightfully funny), super smart analyses, great portraits of players that captures what makes them tick (this makes her work quite special) - so subscribe to The Long Game now ☺️
Love Mollly's analysis of her team, but not a fan of her analysis of mine:
"the Dodgers starting rotation is the worst of the remaining teams (besides maybe the Rangers)"
Texas has Nathan Eovaldi, Jordan Montgomery and Dane Dunning lined up for games 1-3 vs. Baltimore. That's not only not the worst, it may be one of the best. Now the bullpen? Let's just agree to not talk about the bullpen.
I'm the opposite of Ellen Adair (love the Braves, hate the Phillies), so I was dreading her NLDS preview. But I enjoyed it very much. My favorite line was about Suarez being "as cool as a tiny helmet of ice cream." I think Strider's "no fans" comment was a joke. But that said, I wouldn't want to pitch Citizens Bank Park, especially in the playoffs.
Here's another die-hard braves fan totally agreed on the (delightful) surprising enjoyment. I am still burning with fan pride over "(The other loss was versus Spencer Strider, which just, yeah. Good luck.)"
Dan Pompei wrote a great piece in the Athletic 100. I don't know him but it seems he's a legend in Chicago sportwriting and his article on Butkus is incredible.
"People think they know what the Dodgers are at this point: a rich team that drafts well and has basically run the table to win a somewhat weak division during 10 of the past 11 seasons. And then they fold in the playoffs."
Fold? These narratives are frustrating. "Fold in the playoffs" is what the Twins have done in the 21st century. During the current Dodger era, which I think can be said to have started in 2015 when Friedman became president of baseball operations, these are the Dodgers' results:
2015 -- Lost in NLDS
2016 -- Lost in NLCS to world series winner
2017 -- Lost world series
2018 -- Lost world series
2019 -- Lost in NLDS to world series winner
2020 -- won world series
2021 -- Lost in NLCS to world series winner
2022 -- Lost in NLDS
I don't really like the term "fold" (which implies a host of character faults that pundits like to ascribe to sports personnel) but I think you could possibly say they "folded" in 2015 and 2022. In the other six years, they either won the world series or lost to the eventual world series winner, twice in the world series and twice in the NLCS. The world series winner beat everyone. Did they all "fold"?
My mom, who started watching the Dodgers about six years ago and never watched sports before that, doesn't know how fortunate she is to be a Dodger fan and probably thinks they folded all those years. Someone knowledgeable about sports should not say that. I know Joe was referring to some theoretical fan view out there, but I really hate this narrative.
Underachieved? That's fair, compared to their expectations. Folded? That's AM radio talk. Let's just stop.
That's a helluva good point. The expanded playoffs should change the way we perceive post-season success, but we haven't caught up yet. For instance, your 2015-2022 Dodgers were 10-7 in playoff series but "only" won 1 World Series, so they "folded." On the other hand, Babe Ruth's Yankee teams from 1921 through 1932 went 4-3 in playoff series, which is worse than 10-7, but they won 4 World Series because there was only one round. I haven't recalled anyone writing about Ruth's teams "folding" in the playoffs.
It's very similar to the Braves 90s run. We spend (and Molly and Ellen spent) a lot of words on what, really, are not good tests of team quality. We'll act shocked if the Phillies and/or Dbacks win, but they're (especially the Phillies) good teams playing slightly better teams that do have issues. A bad bounce here, a poor pitching outing there, and either higher seed can be bounced.
"He was an animal, he was a well conditioned animal, and every time he hit you he tried to put you in the cemetery, NOT the hospital " - Deacon Jones on Butkus
As a Jays fan whose fandom has taken some knocks come playoffs, I'm always looking for another team to get behind and ride for the playoffs.
Ellen you've convinced me to jp on the band wagon though I have been checking in on Harper and Turner and Realmuto throughout the season.
Loved how the fans embraced Turner amidst his struggles.
Wish more fans did that for Bo and Vlad.
Not disagreeing that Atlanta is the “Best Team in Baseball” this year, but I’m surprised at all the hype compared to a good number of recent teams who had even better regular seasons. The Dodgers won 111 games just LAST YEAR, with an even better Pythag record. And the Astros won 106 games and the World Series. Meanwhile, these Braves won 103, and may have slightly overachieved to do it. They’re a fantastic team and worthy of being the best team in baseball. But they didn’t have some sort of all-time season; they won fewer games than Dodger, Astro, Giant, and Red Sox teams from the past half-decade.
I agree with your comment about the team as a whole. However, the Braves tied for most home runs in a season (against a time when home runs were flying out everywhere) and were the first team with a team slugging percentage over .500. Their offense has been memorable, but overall they are far from invincible.
Detroit Lions All-Pro center Ed Flanagan, who played against Butkus for a decade, said that Butkus used to spit on the back of his neck while Flanagan was crouched over the ball.
Coincidently, Ed Flanagan also died earlier this year.
although i've only enjoyed 2 things ever in Arizona- cruising parts of Route 66 before the interstate was completed, and the Grand Canyon- and Phoenix is a horrid place and i vehemntly dislike their pro baseball, basketball AND football teams, i'll be rooting for Serpents against the despised Dodgers; as long as L.A. isn't in the World Series, i'm good...
Jenifer, why is this the first time we’ve heard about your hatred of the Dodgers? 😉 Next Joe will tell us that he’s written a book a new book (no, not The Baseball 100, a newer book)
good one! 😂😉😂 at least i'm consistent! no fair weather fan, me...
Like Jim Brown, a large (no pun intended) part of Dick Butkus’s legacy is his enormous size compared to his contemporaries.
He was 6’3” and at least 240 . . . and athletic and fast. All LBs wanna f$#k you up; that’s what the position is predicated upon. But he did it before anyone else.
Jim Brown was the same.
Extend to later times. LT. Megaton. Derick Henry. Huge guys who are great because they’re excellent at what they do. And huge.
The wanting to annihilate the opponent? From talking to football players I’ve met, that’s half, of not 3/4 of the point.
R.I.P. Dick Butkus. He was four school years ahead of me and all I wanted to be was exactly like him. When I played full pad ball at Fort LewisI I wore 51 because of him. We were roughly the same size but he was clearly stronger and faster. I still tried to play in that same relentless style. I kept that number 51 jersey for about 40 years until my wife (who is perfect and way out of my league) inexplicably threw it away without telling me. "It was ratty and disgusting". I remember when Lions receiver Chuck Hughes collapsed and died on the field. Chuck had just run a pass pattern and was returning to the huddle when he collapsed with no one near him. Butkus saw that he was in obvious trouble and signaled to the team doctors to come out to help him. Unfortunately, a photo was printed that seemed to show Butkus standing over Chuck Hughes. You can Google it and please note that the impression is based on a trick perspective. You can actually see that between Butkus and Chuck Hughes, there Is a non-player in dark clothing hurrying to help. Because the game was not on national TV, a lot of people thought Butkus had hit Hughes and killed him. Butkus received quite a few anonymous death threats because of that misperception.
John, I was at the game when Hughes died and it was exactly as you say, Butkus was jumping and gesturing to get someone out to help. However, just before that on the same play, he viscously hit Charlie Sanders, who was running a crossing route, above the neck with a forearm that looked as if would separate his head from his shoulders. That is both sides of Butkus. He also once ran Altie Taylor off the field and into the wall at Wrigley Field , at least fifteen yards out of bounds. No flag was thrown, the referees feared Butkus. May he rest in peace.
Thanks. Appreciate the perspective and the information. Speaking of Charlie Sanders, I seem to recall that Xerox, a product designed to stop leaks, once ran a commercial that included a video of game action where Butkus tackles Sanders, lifts him off his feet with his legs still movie and slams him backward to the ground. I don't recall if either player spoke during the commercial. I also noticed that in the ESPN Sports Center tribute to Butkus, Charlie had kind words for Dick, describing him as totally different off the field. Thanks again for your post.
Why so many events at JCCs?
Should Trevor Bauer be on that list of 2023 starters? Does Molly have any comment on that?
I'd favor Olson higher in the mvp rankings than Freeman, though it's close.
For Olson v. Freeman, I'll take Freddie over Matt in MVP and Morgan over Elizabeth in acting MVP. Obviously I'd rather have Elizabeth in my locker room than Morgan, no offense Red.
Wow. Ellen Adair absolutely should write a baseball newsletter - ok, maybe a Phillies newsletter with timely reviews of every opponent, and totally objective of course. I’ve been watching her victory dances and her hoisting the love for Aaron Nola poster for a long time, but it’s time her writing is recognised as par with the joyful dancing and postering.
add: Ellen needs to start writing, but Molly Knight is a writer that anyone who loves baseball should be reading - engaging (and delightfully funny), super smart analyses, great portraits of players that captures what makes them tick (this makes her work quite special) - so subscribe to The Long Game now ☺️
Love Mollly's analysis of her team, but not a fan of her analysis of mine:
"the Dodgers starting rotation is the worst of the remaining teams (besides maybe the Rangers)"
Texas has Nathan Eovaldi, Jordan Montgomery and Dane Dunning lined up for games 1-3 vs. Baltimore. That's not only not the worst, it may be one of the best. Now the bullpen? Let's just agree to not talk about the bullpen.
I'm the opposite of Ellen Adair (love the Braves, hate the Phillies), so I was dreading her NLDS preview. But I enjoyed it very much. My favorite line was about Suarez being "as cool as a tiny helmet of ice cream." I think Strider's "no fans" comment was a joke. But that said, I wouldn't want to pitch Citizens Bank Park, especially in the playoffs.
I'm a Mets fan who hates both the Braves and the Phillies, and it was a great read!
Here's another die-hard braves fan totally agreed on the (delightful) surprising enjoyment. I am still burning with fan pride over "(The other loss was versus Spencer Strider, which just, yeah. Good luck.)"
Don’t forget Joe’s write-up about Dick Butkus in his Football 101 essays. It’s definitely worth reading again after the sad news of his passing. https://joeblogs.joeposnanski.com/p/football-101-no-18-dick-butkus
Dan Pompei wrote a great piece in the Athletic 100. I don't know him but it seems he's a legend in Chicago sportwriting and his article on Butkus is incredible.
I saw that too. He also wrote the Butkus piece in their Football 100. Obviously there was some overlap but I enjoyed them both.
"People think they know what the Dodgers are at this point: a rich team that drafts well and has basically run the table to win a somewhat weak division during 10 of the past 11 seasons. And then they fold in the playoffs."
Fold? These narratives are frustrating. "Fold in the playoffs" is what the Twins have done in the 21st century. During the current Dodger era, which I think can be said to have started in 2015 when Friedman became president of baseball operations, these are the Dodgers' results:
2015 -- Lost in NLDS
2016 -- Lost in NLCS to world series winner
2017 -- Lost world series
2018 -- Lost world series
2019 -- Lost in NLDS to world series winner
2020 -- won world series
2021 -- Lost in NLCS to world series winner
2022 -- Lost in NLDS
I don't really like the term "fold" (which implies a host of character faults that pundits like to ascribe to sports personnel) but I think you could possibly say they "folded" in 2015 and 2022. In the other six years, they either won the world series or lost to the eventual world series winner, twice in the world series and twice in the NLCS. The world series winner beat everyone. Did they all "fold"?
My mom, who started watching the Dodgers about six years ago and never watched sports before that, doesn't know how fortunate she is to be a Dodger fan and probably thinks they folded all those years. Someone knowledgeable about sports should not say that. I know Joe was referring to some theoretical fan view out there, but I really hate this narrative.
Underachieved? That's fair, compared to their expectations. Folded? That's AM radio talk. Let's just stop.
That's a helluva good point. The expanded playoffs should change the way we perceive post-season success, but we haven't caught up yet. For instance, your 2015-2022 Dodgers were 10-7 in playoff series but "only" won 1 World Series, so they "folded." On the other hand, Babe Ruth's Yankee teams from 1921 through 1932 went 4-3 in playoff series, which is worse than 10-7, but they won 4 World Series because there was only one round. I haven't recalled anyone writing about Ruth's teams "folding" in the playoffs.
It's very similar to the Braves 90s run. We spend (and Molly and Ellen spent) a lot of words on what, really, are not good tests of team quality. We'll act shocked if the Phillies and/or Dbacks win, but they're (especially the Phillies) good teams playing slightly better teams that do have issues. A bad bounce here, a poor pitching outing there, and either higher seed can be bounced.
I guess Molly wrote that.
"He was an animal, he was a well conditioned animal, and every time he hit you he tried to put you in the cemetery, NOT the hospital " - Deacon Jones on Butkus
Zack Wheeler … SF Giants prospect … traded away for? And for only how many weeks?
Yeah.
“Sometimes” I do the ‘what if’ math. For 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, … .