Clay County is very big north to south. Joe's right, if they built it on the farm I grew up on (the north border of our farm was County Line Road between Clay and Clinton counties), then yeah, that's a long way from downtown. But somewhere on the north bank of the Missouri River in the southwest corner of the county, well that's just a hop skip and a jump from downtown.
No city has every replaced a beloved beautiful ballpark in good shape, comparable to Kauffman. The new owner wants to generate more revenue. It may be necessary for Kansas City to keep baseball, but it is too bad.
In Kansas City, it seems like the people that actually want to have a downtown stadium tend to skew towards younger people who like to hang out downtown anyway, and don't go to that many games. The people that actually go to the games (which is dwindling with the team being terrible) are people that actually like the stadium.
The "trend" of downtown stadiums actually kind of seems to be over. More recent new stadiums have gone the suburban route, so it seems a little like the attempt to keep up with the trend is a bit too late. The infrastructure problems have been reported internally from Royals ownership sources, outside sources have disagreed.
As for Sherman, he has done very little so far in this, his 4th season as owner. When he fired Dayton Moore last year, he didn't go outside the organization for a new look on things, he shuffled the deck chairs on the Titanic, moving and promoting people that were already in the front office. Taking out 2020, he has spent about two thirds of the amount on payroll in 21-23 as the Royals spent from 17-19, and the team currently has a .405 winning percentage (and trending down) under his ownership. Those are two thirds of actual dollars, unadjusted for inflation, so really less than that.
He came out with the big idea for the downtown stadium this spring, complete with a couple of "renderings" that looked like they might have been done by a talented high school graphics student. He has added little in the way of details since, other than narrowing it down to a couple of prospective sites, including the North KC site (clay county) that you mentioned. The other site is more probable, as a lot of the land is owned by guys who are part of the Royals ownership. (It is known as the "East Village" site, a term I had never heard used for the area until the stadium thing started being talked about)
It would be kind of ironic if the North KC site was chosen, as it would be closer to the current trend, but would not make either side of the fanbase happy. Not the ones like me who think the current stadium is iconic, or the ones that want it downtown.
At some point, if he ever makes a decision and starts looking for money in a specific fashion, it will have to be voted on.. He might want to do something to improve the product on the field first. "We're better than the A's" isn't much of a rallying cry.
I have been to 17 major league parks. Haven't made it to KC yet, but my current favorite is PNC. Comfortable, quaint feeling and you can't beat that cityscape.
I have been slowly working my way through all the MLB stadiums (I'm at 22 current stadiums, plus a few retired stadiums.) After visiting Kauffman a few years ago, I commented to my friends that MLB should have a "Never-Knock-Down" list of stadiums and that Kauffman should be on it. I was reminded of this by Joe's comment that "Kauffman is as timeless to me as Dodger Stadium, Wrigley Field or Fenway Park." Kaufmann did feel distinct and really stood out compared to the newer stadiums. I am curious what stadiums other people would have on their "Never-Knock-Down" list?
I live very close to the Clay County site they've discussed for the Royals stadium. It's about 5 minutes from downtown, basically equivalent to where the Pirates build their stadium across the river from the central business district in Pittsburgh. That's not an endorsement of that site necessarily, but it's not where I think Joe is thinking it is.
I know longer watch or avidly follow major league baseball. I have followed Joe from one forum to another over the last several years because he makes me remember why I once was a rabid baseball fan. The discussion of Kaufmann stadium brought that into clear focus. I was born in the outer suburbs of Los Angeles in 1960, with a father who had at one point seen a game in every major league ballpark. I grew up seeing good to great Dodger teams playing in Dodger Stadium, and listening to Vin Scully call the games as we did yard work or grilled burgers on the weekend.
And I had utterly no understanding how good I had it. I assumed all boys saw baseball in parks like Dodger Stadium, eating hot dogs and filling out scorecards with their parents and siblings. And had local announcers as effortlessly talented as Vin Scully, with teams that almost always contended. Surely every infield was as memorable as Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey.
I often read Joe's writing and then call my dad, now 91, still living in Southern California, with all his wits intact, and who still watches every Dodger game. He extols the virtues of Betts, Freeman, and Kershaw, and facetiously refers to Dave Roberts as the "Manager of the Year." I bought him the Baseball 100 and he shares with me his memories of watching many of them play in person, and the ballparks in which he saw them.
It is possible I would have realized this without revisiting my former love of baseball through Joe's writing, but not likely. Best three bucks a month I ever spent. Even if it taught me that Steve Garvey, certain Hall of Famer, really wasn't all that and a bag of chips.
poignant portion about Kauffman Stadium, there are so few old parks w/history left that are still a great fan experience, a great place to see a game...
i'm happy this week, my Giants, despite a bit of comedown from their 10 game winning streak, are still nipping at the D-Backs heels!!!
I ordered my book and told the story of why I love baseball. I hope it is the record breaker.
My 11 year old Katie and I also started reading the Baseball 100 last night. I got it for her for Christmas (with personal inscription) and she has continually said she wants to read it, but wasn't ready. Last night, I just picked it up and told her we were doing this. I read it as it appeared at The Athletic and the multiple other times you started it. It is still a fun read. We read the two introductions, most of the glossary and the first two essays on Ichiro and Mussina. At the end, she told me I could put it on my nightstand, but I am not to read it without her. It's an interesting experience, because she has no idea who Ichiro or Mussina are, so this is all new to her. I need to show her some video of Ichiro and his pre at bat stretching ritual you describe in the essay.
I always thought it would be cool if a franchise would close their stadium for an entire year to renovate it, and just have their team play games elsewhere. Like at college stadiums or minor league stadiums. They can even roam around a bit. I looked it up, the Royals average something like 16,000 in attendance per game, so it's not like they need to use the Enormodome or something. It would be kinda cool if the Royals played at a 5,000 seat minor league park a few games, or an 8,000 seat college stadium. Maybe it would be less luxurious, but who f-in cares, the Royals are f-in horrible.
The Arizona Coyotes (NHL) are currently playing at Mullett (sp?) arena (capacity about 5,000) while they try to figure out what they'll do next. Apparently the atmosphere (relative to typical Coyote games) is......good?
I think the players would file a grievance at having to use below standard clubhouse, training, etc. facilities. The Yankees did something similar but it took two years, they played at Shea in '74-'75 while they "renovated" old Yankee Stadium. Not sure St. Louis would let KC do that or if it would be close enough.
When the Mariners were still playing at the Kingdoms in 1994, 4 ceiling tiles fell down in July. The Kingdoms was shuttered for the remainder of the season. The initial plan proposed relocating home games to the AAA stadium in Tacoma, 40 miles away. However, the substandard clubhouse nixed the proposal. The Mariners played the final 20 games of the strike shortened season in the opponents ball park, where the Mariners batted last as befits a "home" team. On another note, Tacoma's ball park was much better for spectator viewing than the Kingdome, but with far fewer amenities off the field. The one exception? Having been affiliated with the Mariners, Giants, Cubs, Cleveland, Twins and As, the gift shop. offered a number of minor league baseball cards of future big league stars such as Jason Giambi, Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire.
On September 8 1991, support beams snapped and caused a 55-long-ton (62-short-ton; 56 t) concrete slab to fall onto an exterior walkway at Montreal's Olympic Stadium. No one was injured, but the Expos had to move their final 13 home games of that season to the opponents' cities.
Related: I climbed up on the Olympic Stadium roof while on a HS field trip sometime in the late 1970s
Thanks for your thoughts on Kauffman Joe. I would personally love to see the stadium built downtown, but I was hoping they would do it between the Negro Leagues Museum and the T-Mobile center. Wherever it ends up, I would love to see the iconic Crown scoreboard move with it.
I don't get the "expensive renovations" angle. They want to build a 2 BILLION dollar stadium. How expensive can the renovations be? They should just come out and say it's a lot easier to get other people to pay for a new stadium that to pay for fixing the current stadium.
No stadium or arena has ever generated any business around it even in the center of a city that wouldn't have already been there already with the exception of a bar or two across the street. All reports to the contrary are propaganda. Consequently no public money should go to their building because there is no public benefit.
Adding: Similarly, who would've thought shutting down your entire downtown for a race would have some huge costs--which weren't considered part of the money it would bring in?
I think a downtown park would be great for Kansas City but I 100 percent agree on your love for the K. I love it too and think it's a fantastic place in a market that is lucky to have it.
Clay County is very big north to south. Joe's right, if they built it on the farm I grew up on (the north border of our farm was County Line Road between Clay and Clinton counties), then yeah, that's a long way from downtown. But somewhere on the north bank of the Missouri River in the southwest corner of the county, well that's just a hop skip and a jump from downtown.
Not that I propose moving. Kauffman is my first ballpark. It is still beautiful and I would prefer they keep it. But time marches on.
Agree with Joe.
No city has every replaced a beloved beautiful ballpark in good shape, comparable to Kauffman. The new owner wants to generate more revenue. It may be necessary for Kansas City to keep baseball, but it is too bad.
In Kansas City, it seems like the people that actually want to have a downtown stadium tend to skew towards younger people who like to hang out downtown anyway, and don't go to that many games. The people that actually go to the games (which is dwindling with the team being terrible) are people that actually like the stadium.
The "trend" of downtown stadiums actually kind of seems to be over. More recent new stadiums have gone the suburban route, so it seems a little like the attempt to keep up with the trend is a bit too late. The infrastructure problems have been reported internally from Royals ownership sources, outside sources have disagreed.
As for Sherman, he has done very little so far in this, his 4th season as owner. When he fired Dayton Moore last year, he didn't go outside the organization for a new look on things, he shuffled the deck chairs on the Titanic, moving and promoting people that were already in the front office. Taking out 2020, he has spent about two thirds of the amount on payroll in 21-23 as the Royals spent from 17-19, and the team currently has a .405 winning percentage (and trending down) under his ownership. Those are two thirds of actual dollars, unadjusted for inflation, so really less than that.
He came out with the big idea for the downtown stadium this spring, complete with a couple of "renderings" that looked like they might have been done by a talented high school graphics student. He has added little in the way of details since, other than narrowing it down to a couple of prospective sites, including the North KC site (clay county) that you mentioned. The other site is more probable, as a lot of the land is owned by guys who are part of the Royals ownership. (It is known as the "East Village" site, a term I had never heard used for the area until the stadium thing started being talked about)
It would be kind of ironic if the North KC site was chosen, as it would be closer to the current trend, but would not make either side of the fanbase happy. Not the ones like me who think the current stadium is iconic, or the ones that want it downtown.
At some point, if he ever makes a decision and starts looking for money in a specific fashion, it will have to be voted on.. He might want to do something to improve the product on the field first. "We're better than the A's" isn't much of a rallying cry.
Save Kaufman. You won't like what replaces it.
I have been to 17 major league parks. Haven't made it to KC yet, but my current favorite is PNC. Comfortable, quaint feeling and you can't beat that cityscape.
I have been slowly working my way through all the MLB stadiums (I'm at 22 current stadiums, plus a few retired stadiums.) After visiting Kauffman a few years ago, I commented to my friends that MLB should have a "Never-Knock-Down" list of stadiums and that Kauffman should be on it. I was reminded of this by Joe's comment that "Kauffman is as timeless to me as Dodger Stadium, Wrigley Field or Fenway Park." Kaufmann did feel distinct and really stood out compared to the newer stadiums. I am curious what stadiums other people would have on their "Never-Knock-Down" list?
I live very close to the Clay County site they've discussed for the Royals stadium. It's about 5 minutes from downtown, basically equivalent to where the Pirates build their stadium across the river from the central business district in Pittsburgh. That's not an endorsement of that site necessarily, but it's not where I think Joe is thinking it is.
I know longer watch or avidly follow major league baseball. I have followed Joe from one forum to another over the last several years because he makes me remember why I once was a rabid baseball fan. The discussion of Kaufmann stadium brought that into clear focus. I was born in the outer suburbs of Los Angeles in 1960, with a father who had at one point seen a game in every major league ballpark. I grew up seeing good to great Dodger teams playing in Dodger Stadium, and listening to Vin Scully call the games as we did yard work or grilled burgers on the weekend.
And I had utterly no understanding how good I had it. I assumed all boys saw baseball in parks like Dodger Stadium, eating hot dogs and filling out scorecards with their parents and siblings. And had local announcers as effortlessly talented as Vin Scully, with teams that almost always contended. Surely every infield was as memorable as Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey.
I often read Joe's writing and then call my dad, now 91, still living in Southern California, with all his wits intact, and who still watches every Dodger game. He extols the virtues of Betts, Freeman, and Kershaw, and facetiously refers to Dave Roberts as the "Manager of the Year." I bought him the Baseball 100 and he shares with me his memories of watching many of them play in person, and the ballparks in which he saw them.
It is possible I would have realized this without revisiting my former love of baseball through Joe's writing, but not likely. Best three bucks a month I ever spent. Even if it taught me that Steve Garvey, certain Hall of Famer, really wasn't all that and a bag of chips.
your book's going to be huge, Joe!!!
poignant portion about Kauffman Stadium, there are so few old parks w/history left that are still a great fan experience, a great place to see a game...
i'm happy this week, my Giants, despite a bit of comedown from their 10 game winning streak, are still nipping at the D-Backs heels!!!
"Three out of four infielders AND a catcher from the Rangers? Who would have predicted that?"
Who WANTS that is my question. Rangers fans, I guess. No one else. AL team looks dull. Three teams + Aaron Judge repped, and I doubt Judge plays.
I live in Seattle, have tix to the ASG this year, and I'm way more excited about the NL team. I hope they add Elly De La Cruz to the squad.
I ordered my book and told the story of why I love baseball. I hope it is the record breaker.
My 11 year old Katie and I also started reading the Baseball 100 last night. I got it for her for Christmas (with personal inscription) and she has continually said she wants to read it, but wasn't ready. Last night, I just picked it up and told her we were doing this. I read it as it appeared at The Athletic and the multiple other times you started it. It is still a fun read. We read the two introductions, most of the glossary and the first two essays on Ichiro and Mussina. At the end, she told me I could put it on my nightstand, but I am not to read it without her. It's an interesting experience, because she has no idea who Ichiro or Mussina are, so this is all new to her. I need to show her some video of Ichiro and his pre at bat stretching ritual you describe in the essay.
I always thought it would be cool if a franchise would close their stadium for an entire year to renovate it, and just have their team play games elsewhere. Like at college stadiums or minor league stadiums. They can even roam around a bit. I looked it up, the Royals average something like 16,000 in attendance per game, so it's not like they need to use the Enormodome or something. It would be kinda cool if the Royals played at a 5,000 seat minor league park a few games, or an 8,000 seat college stadium. Maybe it would be less luxurious, but who f-in cares, the Royals are f-in horrible.
Yeah, Royals could easily play a season or two in the College World Series ballpark in Omaha.
The Arizona Coyotes (NHL) are currently playing at Mullett (sp?) arena (capacity about 5,000) while they try to figure out what they'll do next. Apparently the atmosphere (relative to typical Coyote games) is......good?
I think the players would file a grievance at having to use below standard clubhouse, training, etc. facilities. The Yankees did something similar but it took two years, they played at Shea in '74-'75 while they "renovated" old Yankee Stadium. Not sure St. Louis would let KC do that or if it would be close enough.
When the Mariners were still playing at the Kingdoms in 1994, 4 ceiling tiles fell down in July. The Kingdoms was shuttered for the remainder of the season. The initial plan proposed relocating home games to the AAA stadium in Tacoma, 40 miles away. However, the substandard clubhouse nixed the proposal. The Mariners played the final 20 games of the strike shortened season in the opponents ball park, where the Mariners batted last as befits a "home" team. On another note, Tacoma's ball park was much better for spectator viewing than the Kingdome, but with far fewer amenities off the field. The one exception? Having been affiliated with the Mariners, Giants, Cubs, Cleveland, Twins and As, the gift shop. offered a number of minor league baseball cards of future big league stars such as Jason Giambi, Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire.
On September 8 1991, support beams snapped and caused a 55-long-ton (62-short-ton; 56 t) concrete slab to fall onto an exterior walkway at Montreal's Olympic Stadium. No one was injured, but the Expos had to move their final 13 home games of that season to the opponents' cities.
Related: I climbed up on the Olympic Stadium roof while on a HS field trip sometime in the late 1970s
I enjoy the suggestion that your adolescent self damaged the roof of Olympic Stadium, but it didn't show up until 1991. ("Related.")
It is probably true that the players would file a grievance, which seems to make the Athletics’ situation yet more untenable.
Thanks for your thoughts on Kauffman Joe. I would personally love to see the stadium built downtown, but I was hoping they would do it between the Negro Leagues Museum and the T-Mobile center. Wherever it ends up, I would love to see the iconic Crown scoreboard move with it.
I don't get the "expensive renovations" angle. They want to build a 2 BILLION dollar stadium. How expensive can the renovations be? They should just come out and say it's a lot easier to get other people to pay for a new stadium that to pay for fixing the current stadium.
Bingo.
No stadium or arena has ever generated any business around it even in the center of a city that wouldn't have already been there already with the exception of a bar or two across the street. All reports to the contrary are propaganda. Consequently no public money should go to their building because there is no public benefit.
Adding: Similarly, who would've thought shutting down your entire downtown for a race would have some huge costs--which weren't considered part of the money it would bring in?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-30/chicago-s-nascar-grant-park-220-race-offers-city-only-modest-economic-benefit
I think a downtown park would be great for Kansas City but I 100 percent agree on your love for the K. I love it too and think it's a fantastic place in a market that is lucky to have it.