I hear what you're saying and at the same time your whole article has me thinking that you are still very much a fan. Your whole article is an illogical response to a reasonable trade. So as much as the Browns make decisions that feel like your connection to the team is frayed, it does not feel like it's severed based on the words that I read. Either way, I feel your pain as a fan of other teams who scratch their head at the decisions their management makes
Joe...I'd love for you to do a deep-dive into how trades pan out for the teams that trade away superstars in terms of the return they get. As a Mets fan, we clearly lost the Seaver for Pat Zachary, Doug Flynn, Dan Norman, and Alex Trevino trade. But then the Marlins lost the Piazza to the Mets for Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall, Geoff Goetz trade. With the blossoming of CJ Abrams and James Wood, you could say the Nationals did all right for themselves in the Juan Soto trade, but are either of them a future HOFer? Probably not.
You've got to adjust the lens through which you assess what the Browns do. It's not "Will this significantly improve the Browns long term prospects of becoming a respectable football team." No. You've got to look at each Browns decision based on this one question: " Is this the WORST possible thing they could have done in this situation." If, as in the Garrett trade, the answer is No, they could have done worse, then it is a comparatively a good day for Browns fans.
I was living in Kirtland, not far from his suburban home, when Art Modell sold out the Cleveland fans and moved the franchise to BAL. Never came back as a fan, and the signing of HWSNBN just added intense fuel to the fire of disdain for the franchise. Luckily, I grew up in WNY and have been able to resurrect the full passion I'd had for the Buffalo Bills before my ten year life in NE Ohio. Wishing the BIlls had landed Garrett last year when he said he wanted to be traded, and hoping the new defensive coordinator and roster will deliver the Bills' faithful to the promised land at last.
I gave up on the Browns long ago, when 1-15 became 0-16 and they went from being a bad team to a joke. And I basically gave up on football with them - not having a team to root for allowed me to see all the other things I dislike about the sport, which turn out to outweigh the positives. For me anyway. So - welcome to the club. Membership fee is a little piece of your heart.
But I will say, along the way I lost most of my sympathy for fans who have continued to pay Haslam and Co. and make this a viable enterprise. If there's nothing that has happened in the last 15 years to convince a Browns fan to stop buying tickets and merch and watching on TV, then it's self-inflicted punishment at this point.
I agree with this 10,000% and feel exactly the same way. The only way this trade could have made me feel ok is if they Rams had also taken Watson and Haslam as part of the deal.
I live in St. Louis. Therefore, anything that might help the Rams and the evil Stan Kroenke is absolutely anathema to me. So I hated this trade passionately.
Joe, the Cleveland Browns left Cleveland in 1995. They moved to Baltimore. they're the Ravens now. The team you follow is an expansion team which entered the league in 1999, which happens to be called the "Cleveland Browns." Brian Sipe and Ozzie Newsome and Bernie Kosar and Clay Matthews and Hanford Dixon did not play for this team.
Just because we all pretend something is a fact does not make it so. Falsely appending the history of one team to an expansion team and keeping the name is ludicrous. The Seattle Mariners are not the Seattle Pilots. The Kansas City Royals are not the Kansas City A's. The New York Mets are not the Giants or Dodgers. And the Cleveland Browns are not the Cleveland Browns.
What you're talking about is paperwork. I don't think that's worth more than a team named the Cleveland Browns playing in Cleveland wearing Cleveland Browns uniforms and breaking the hearts of Cleveland Browns fans.
To the extent that any sports team can continue being the same sports team—we're getting into Ship of Theseus territory here—they're the Cleveland Browns.
I could never root for a team that left my city, not to mention that you could only catch a handful (at best) of their games on TV, at least prior to the NFL Ticket stuff came along.
I hear you, but fandom seldom follows franchises. Tell any longtime Baltimore football fan that Unitas really belongs to Indianapolis instead of Baltimore, or why they should care that Jim Brown is really part of their franchise when he was nothing but an arch rival for his entire playing career. Teams are a part of the fabric of their city, and a Cleveland football fan is more enamored with who is suiting up for them that season than where the franchise eventually moves.
What do you define as a team, then? By this logic, Minnesotans should rooting for the Lakers and Philadelphians for the Sacramento As. Besides, logic has nothing to do with fandom, as is the point here. It's colors and uniforms and name. It's emotion, not reason.
I'm a Red Sox guy, and never been a Browns guy. But I feel like this is worse than trading Mookie.
We've had a lot of joy from our team this century. Heck, we had joy last century, though always ending in disappointment. In our case, the disappointment was magnified by the hope created by the prior joy. But we had some joy.
This team? The Browns? Man, they stink. They always stink. As an outsider, I don't feel like they ever threaten anyone with actually being good. Any time they are good—even just good—it is a surprise. The hope they create in fans is...well, it's hollow. (Yeah, the 80's were good. Worth rooting for, and worth rooting against. but that was 40 years ago!)
Having an actually excellent player? Like...perhaps the best? And not an invisible lineman, but an actually disruptive and quite visible force on the field? That's something to root for. That's something to build on.
**I** think that this worse, and I'm not even a Browns fan. I was rooting for Elway. But, man, this is just a betrayal AND kicking the fans when they've been down so long because you put them there.
I hear what you're saying and at the same time your whole article has me thinking that you are still very much a fan. Your whole article is an illogical response to a reasonable trade. So as much as the Browns make decisions that feel like your connection to the team is frayed, it does not feel like it's severed based on the words that I read. Either way, I feel your pain as a fan of other teams who scratch their head at the decisions their management makes
Joe...I'd love for you to do a deep-dive into how trades pan out for the teams that trade away superstars in terms of the return they get. As a Mets fan, we clearly lost the Seaver for Pat Zachary, Doug Flynn, Dan Norman, and Alex Trevino trade. But then the Marlins lost the Piazza to the Mets for Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall, Geoff Goetz trade. With the blossoming of CJ Abrams and James Wood, you could say the Nationals did all right for themselves in the Juan Soto trade, but are either of them a future HOFer? Probably not.
You've got to adjust the lens through which you assess what the Browns do. It's not "Will this significantly improve the Browns long term prospects of becoming a respectable football team." No. You've got to look at each Browns decision based on this one question: " Is this the WORST possible thing they could have done in this situation." If, as in the Garrett trade, the answer is No, they could have done worse, then it is a comparatively a good day for Browns fans.
PS: Starting HWSNBN as quarterback will be the WORST possible thing they could do.
I was living in Kirtland, not far from his suburban home, when Art Modell sold out the Cleveland fans and moved the franchise to BAL. Never came back as a fan, and the signing of HWSNBN just added intense fuel to the fire of disdain for the franchise. Luckily, I grew up in WNY and have been able to resurrect the full passion I'd had for the Buffalo Bills before my ten year life in NE Ohio. Wishing the BIlls had landed Garrett last year when he said he wanted to be traded, and hoping the new defensive coordinator and roster will deliver the Bills' faithful to the promised land at last.
I gave up on the Browns long ago, when 1-15 became 0-16 and they went from being a bad team to a joke. And I basically gave up on football with them - not having a team to root for allowed me to see all the other things I dislike about the sport, which turn out to outweigh the positives. For me anyway. So - welcome to the club. Membership fee is a little piece of your heart.
But I will say, along the way I lost most of my sympathy for fans who have continued to pay Haslam and Co. and make this a viable enterprise. If there's nothing that has happened in the last 15 years to convince a Browns fan to stop buying tickets and merch and watching on TV, then it's self-inflicted punishment at this point.
1) Fuck this fucking team.
2) Is this worse than trading Mookie? Basically the some thing? Its the same kick in the gut to the fanbase, right?
Well done, Joe. Sorry the Browns are a clown car in a Dumpster fire on a sinking ship. You and thousands of Browns fans deserve better.
Or is it a dumpster fire in a clown car on a sinking ship?
I agree with this 10,000% and feel exactly the same way. The only way this trade could have made me feel ok is if they Rams had also taken Watson and Haslam as part of the deal.
I live in St. Louis. Therefore, anything that might help the Rams and the evil Stan Kroenke is absolutely anathema to me. So I hated this trade passionately.
Joe, the Cleveland Browns left Cleveland in 1995. They moved to Baltimore. they're the Ravens now. The team you follow is an expansion team which entered the league in 1999, which happens to be called the "Cleveland Browns." Brian Sipe and Ozzie Newsome and Bernie Kosar and Clay Matthews and Hanford Dixon did not play for this team.
Just because we all pretend something is a fact does not make it so. Falsely appending the history of one team to an expansion team and keeping the name is ludicrous. The Seattle Mariners are not the Seattle Pilots. The Kansas City Royals are not the Kansas City A's. The New York Mets are not the Giants or Dodgers. And the Cleveland Browns are not the Cleveland Browns.
What you're talking about is paperwork. I don't think that's worth more than a team named the Cleveland Browns playing in Cleveland wearing Cleveland Browns uniforms and breaking the hearts of Cleveland Browns fans.
To the extent that any sports team can continue being the same sports team—we're getting into Ship of Theseus territory here—they're the Cleveland Browns.
Technically true. Emotionally, not even close.
I could never root for a team that left my city, not to mention that you could only catch a handful (at best) of their games on TV, at least prior to the NFL Ticket stuff came along.
I hear you, but fandom seldom follows franchises. Tell any longtime Baltimore football fan that Unitas really belongs to Indianapolis instead of Baltimore, or why they should care that Jim Brown is really part of their franchise when he was nothing but an arch rival for his entire playing career. Teams are a part of the fabric of their city, and a Cleveland football fan is more enamored with who is suiting up for them that season than where the franchise eventually moves.
What do you define as a team, then? By this logic, Minnesotans should rooting for the Lakers and Philadelphians for the Sacramento As. Besides, logic has nothing to do with fandom, as is the point here. It's colors and uniforms and name. It's emotion, not reason.
I knew you would feel that way because that’s how I felt when the Red Sox traded Mookie Betts.
I'm a Red Sox guy, and never been a Browns guy. But I feel like this is worse than trading Mookie.
We've had a lot of joy from our team this century. Heck, we had joy last century, though always ending in disappointment. In our case, the disappointment was magnified by the hope created by the prior joy. But we had some joy.
This team? The Browns? Man, they stink. They always stink. As an outsider, I don't feel like they ever threaten anyone with actually being good. Any time they are good—even just good—it is a surprise. The hope they create in fans is...well, it's hollow. (Yeah, the 80's were good. Worth rooting for, and worth rooting against. but that was 40 years ago!)
Having an actually excellent player? Like...perhaps the best? And not an invisible lineman, but an actually disruptive and quite visible force on the field? That's something to root for. That's something to build on.
**I** think that this worse, and I'm not even a Browns fan. I was rooting for Elway. But, man, this is just a betrayal AND kicking the fans when they've been down so long because you put them there.